Working it Hot

[brian john]

My Bad

Being told and being trained are two different things

They were given training and were told under written signed company policy.


Not that it matters here but if you can get out of bed in the morning, you should be able understand without training what that label on second step down from the top of the ladder means. DO NOT STEP ABOVE.

But they receive training, the hall stresses safety and training, the equipment is marked, and verbally reminded regularly.

As I have said in other post, you should never go home in worst condition than you came to work, and I STRESS SAFETY constantly to our men. I feel terrible when a guy gets hurt, but when it is totally obviously their fault I get on the hook.

 

[realolman]

Company assembles employees who are shown horror films. ( I'm sure you've all seen them ) by fuse company representatives who want to sell fuses that they say will decrease the hazard.

Fuse company sells thousands of dollars worth of fuses.

Company has stickers pasted on every piece of electrical equipment, saying something about NFPA 70E and how dangerous it is to work energized without PPE.

Somebody sold stickers.

No PPE bought.

O K lawyers what's the verdict?:smile:

Was there training? I imagine in the dopes' mind who run the joint there was.

If it doesnt work like Don Resqcapt_19 says, it'll be nothing but dog and pony shows. "We trained 'em. What more could we possibly have done?"

 

[wptski]

My Bad




They were given training and were told under written signed company policy.


Not that it matters here but if you can get out of bed in the morning, you should be able understand without training what that label on second step down from the top of the ladder means. DO NOT STEP ABOVE.

But they receive training, the hall stresses safety and training, the equipment is marked, and verbally reminded regularly.

As I have said in other post, you should never go home in worst condition than you came to work, and I STRESS SAFETY constantly to our men. I feel terrible when a guy gets hurt, but when it is totally obviously their fault I get on the hook.

If you lost on that case, it's a bummer!

 

[ohm]

Sorry about my confusing OP. I wanted to see if my thoughts on safety were in-line with you guys. I once read if you commit 300 unsafe acts one will get you. I once saw an outstanding electrician fired for sitting on the top of a 6 ft. stepladder without being tied off, in a controlroom. Our harnesses come with 15 ft. lanyards so go figure.

It seems the people who make the rules have zero on-the-job experience.

 

[wawireguy]

Does "the boss" provide PPE for the workers in good working condition. Does he enforce not working live without it? If you just give training then just do business as usual the company is not off the hook.

 

[zog]

I would like to ask if there is an electrician out there who has never worked on a live circuit without proper PPA & training. And, when all the workers have attended necessary training is the boss off the hook?

No the boss is not at all, in fact there is no training that can make you qualified, only your employer can deem you qualified and as the qaulifier he is most definatly on the hook.

 

[mdshunk]

No the boss is not at all, in fact there is no training that can make you qualified, only your employer can deem you qualified and as the qaulifier he is most definatly on the hook.

Now there's an interesting comment that gives a guy (me) some pause.

 

[zog]

Now there's an interesting comment that gives a guy (me) some pause.

Well it is a true statement, the 70E handbook makes this very clear. 70E training courses that advertise a 70E qualification or worse yet a certification show that those trainers dont even understand the 70E well enough to understand this vital point, you really want them doing your training?

 

[mdshunk]

Well it is a true statement, ...

I believe you. I just never looked at it that way. Brings on a whole new perspective. As Gomer would say, "Shazam!".

 

[jim dungar]

To be compliant with NFPA70E/OSHA the employer needs to have an Electrical Safe Work Practices program (NFPA70E 110.7). Disciplinary actions should be included in these programs (110.7(B)).

 

[ohm]

True Jim, it cost us a million bucks to get ISO 9001 certified and the bottom line was have a plan & work your plan. It didn't necessarily have to be a good plan and the stock answer to the inspectors if you didn't know an answer was "I'll have to ask my boss".

 

[cowboyjwc]

Just a guess but maybe any electricians that do service of any type over the age of 26?

I agree, I hooked up more services than I can count hot, underground and overhead, before I even knew what PPE was. Now I'm not even supposed to inspect anything hot without PPE (supplied by the contractor of course).

 

[Pennco Tech]

Working Hot

Working Hot

I myself am new to the field of Electrical work. I have not yet worked on Hot wires intentionally. I did realize shortly afterwords that I did not turn off the power before starting to work but was able to turn off the power with out any problems. Now I have talked to those who say they have worked with Hot wires and that some times its not possible to turn off the power but if the power can be turned off then they would have. Now they did not get into specifics about where, but they did mention the company they were working for and that it does happen in the electrical field. I hope that as I become more experienced that any bosses I have don't ask me to do something that may cause serious injury or even death. Given the safety minded world we live in and how companies are being made responsible for their employees I don't think any employer will won't to be on the news explaining why one of their employees died because they failed to follow safety procedures.

 

[ohm]

Being told and being trained are two different things.

True, just as talking and communicating are two different things.

It is pretty well known that if someone violates a company safety policy, and attended a safety meeting and signed in & out of the meeting on the topic, the company is on pretty safe grounds if that person gets hurt violating the policy. Especially if there is documented proof the company enforces the policy.

Further, the employee or the survivors aren't elegible for workman's comp. benefits if that person is injured in the act.

I wonder how many electricians/helpers have had formal training on how to megger and wear PPA while doing so. Is it hot work?

 

[zog]

I wonder how many electricians/helpers have had formal training on how to megger and wear PPA while doing so. Is it hot work?

About 2 years ago I wrote OSHA to ask this question, they said yes, it should be treated as energized (For hipot and megger) and all safety requirements apply.

I was shocked (Pardon the pun) at this response, there is no way a megger can cause an arc flash hazard, waer rubber gloves for shock protection, that I can agree with, but to treat it the same as being energized, I dont agree with that, but that is what OSHA said.

I wish I has the letter to show, but it was at my last job and the letter is on that companies computer.

 

[ohm]

About 2 years ago I wrote OSHA to ask this question, they said yes, it should be treated as energized (For hipot and megger) and all safety requirements apply.

I was shocked (Pardon the pun) at this response, there is no way a megger can cause an arc flash hazard, waer rubber gloves for shock protection, that I can agree with, but to treat it the same as being energized, I dont agree with that, but that is what OSHA said.

I wish I has the letter to show, but it was at my last job and the letter is on that companies computer.

All safety requirements apply? Now that's a mouthfull, even for OSHA. Do you think a little CYA was involved?

Well, lets don our spacesuits when we crank up the meggers. Are there any other battery powered devices we need to be woried about? Say, how come auto mechanics don't have to wear that stuff when the cars are running? Lots of energy in those new sparks plugs!

 

[zog]

I agree with you, there just isnt the energy there from a megger (Or hipot for that matter) to cause a flash of any signifigant Ei. According to the letter, the 2 person rule in 1910.269 for >600V also applies.

 

[ohm]

I agree with you, there just isnt the energy there from a megger (Or hipot for that matter) to cause a flash of any signifigant Ei. According to the letter, the 2 person rule in 1910.269 for >600V also applies.

Two person rule? Does that mean LOTO applies? Do we need to set up a safety barrier at every open outlet, during a megger?

I wonder how much energy is in a fence zapper? Does farmer jones need an OSHA visit?

Do we need rules about working on electrical panels when an electrical storm is say..within 10 miles?

Times running out before they close the door on the 2011 Code!

 

[zog]

Do we need rules about working on electrical panels when an electrical storm is say..within 10 miles?

Already exists for substation work.

 

[ohm]

Already exists for substation work.

Do they follow the "Code"?