Working small jobs in malls

Status
Not open for further replies.
PetrosA

PetrosA

Senior Member
Location
Lancaster, Pennsylvania
I have a few questions actually...


First some background on the work.

Location: Large metropolitan region, Large shopping malls, food court units.

Two units in different malls, run by same franchiser. Tenant needs one circuit run to counter in each unit for new equipment. Longest run is approx. 60' (MC) through dropped ceiling and drywall walls. Materials for both jobs under $300, estimated job time for one man (liberal), 3 hours per unit.


So now for the questions.

The first one is purely out of curiosity - A union bidder submitted a price of $3000 for the two units. What the heck goes into a bid like that?

Second question - does anyone here know what the general policy is for non-union guys doing small jobs in malls? I've heard from some that I could be putting myself in danger by taking the work, on the other hand, to charge that much for this work is gouging the customer by any standards.

I don't want to flame any union vs. non-union fires with these questions, just try and understand the situation better before taking or not taking a job.

Thanks
 
480sparky

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
If you're working for a tenant in the mall, you have two 'customers'. The tenant and the mall.

Most malls require $2mil liability insurance minimum. Some require $5mil. Up goes your premium, so the the job costs more.

You can't usually park right next to the job. You gotta park out in the boonies and pack everything in. Make sure your truck is locked! I can see an hour wrapped up in just moving in and moving out. And that's above and beyond windshield time.

Working during the day? That's even more time consuming when there's customers, little kids, old ladies tromping around where you're trying tow work, let alone the snot-nosed smart-arse teeny boppers they've hired. You can't leave anything out in the open or it'll sprout legs and walk away, or hurt someone. You just can't 'move it' and take over the territory to do the job.... working retail is a whole other world.
 
E

emahler

Senior Member
figure min 4 hrs - heck, forget a screw and it's a 20 min round trip to the truck...

union shop - 16 man hours (8 hrs per store)

some malls are known as "closed" or "union houses" and they basically have agreements that only union contractors can work in them. Some malls are "open"...

my guess is that the mall these are in are "union houses" and you may sneak in under the radar...or you may get a visit...

the unions can't stop you, but the mall management can...
 
N

nakulak

Senior Member
PetrosA said:
Two units in different malls, run by same franchiser. Tenant needs one circuit run to counter in each unit for new equipment. Longest run is approx. 60' (MC)
Click to expand...

that sounds like nothing, but it could also be a pia job. its food - can't get dust anywhere. 60' sounds like nothing, but getting it to where its going can be a pia. union, non union, polish govt, I don't care, its worth what its worth, if youre gonna bid it cheap you're nuts.
 
PetrosA

PetrosA

Senior Member
Location
Lancaster, Pennsylvania
nakulak said:
... polish govt, I don't care, its worth what its worth, if youre gonna bid it cheap you're nuts.
Click to expand...

Hehe, I have some experience with the Polish system (14 years overseas). Actually, to get the job, I'd have to be family... oh wait, I am family ;) . No worries, I have no plans to bid it cheap, just fair.
 
growler

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
PetrosA said:
A union bidder submitted a price of $3000 for the two units. What the heck goes into a bid like that? to charge that much for this work is gouging the customer by any standards.
Click to expand...

It's tempting to think that but I wouldn't want to bet on it. Sometimes contractors that are familiar with a certain area know things that you may not.

Why don't you start out just by talking to Mall management to see what you can find out. You will need to know where the service entrances are located, and where you are allowed to park ( I have been allowed to park in service areas at certain times with permission or at least to unload ). what times it possible to have ladders on the floor ( hallway,some not during business hours), You may have to submit a plan of what you are doing so they can change the as builts ( it's happpened ), the may for sure require a permit to make sure that fire walls are properly sealed, then there are the insurance and proof of licenses and all the normal hoop-la. They will probably required a lien waiver for any work done there.

There are no real standards because the owners can set up lease agreements anyway they want to and keep as much control of the property as they desire ( they own it ).

The good thing is that there are tenants constantly moving in and out so they are set up to answer questions because it happens all the time. It's not something new they have to deal with contractors all the time.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
$1500 each does not sound out of line, it is not call to a home. I agree with the others, mall work can be incredibly slow.
 
jrannis

jrannis

Senior Member
Location
Fort Lauderdale/ Miami
Don't forget that your guys will be looking at the girls walking by all day long.
Mobilizing and demobilizing these jobs can be half of the job.
If you are a one man show then try your luck.
I have been in malls where you must get a permit for everything you do.
One tenant snuck his handyman in to hang some track lighting and ended up loosing his business because of it.
The mall paid us to open a permit, remove the open wiring and patch the holes.
We then had to wait for the inspector half a day to show him nothing was there.
Lucky this mall had just partition walls up 14' then security fence the rest of the way.
Be competitive, just not cheap.
If they catch wind that you are trying to get in the mall, they might drop their price to $250 per store to protect their work.
Just be prepared to go under a microscope.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Rewire

Rewire

Senior Member
Location
Lake of the Ozarks
We have a mall that we do all the work for they got tired of having to call someone in to clean up messes left bu other ECs .
We showed them how it would be more cost effective to keep the same elecrician who would be familiar with the systems that were installed. One of the first things we learned was to keep our mouths shut.

Tennats are nosey and want to find out if someone is getting something paid by management that they didn't get.

Stageing is always aa pain because of the distance from parking and you can only bring in small amounts because of space
 
Dnkldorf

Dnkldorf

Senior Member
Did some Game Stops in malls.

Got visited by BA's. They went to GS and mall management.

Threatened to picket.

Neither party really cared.

Did all work early morning before malls open to public.
Didn't have a problem.


Never seen/heard from BA again.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I can not think of one instance we have had union issues working at a mall. I guess we are lucky up here. Only all the other issues, mall management, parking, noise, visual distractions, load in, load out, etc.
 
petersonra

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
ask some more experienced contractors what the deal is. there is often some under the table deals that might preclude you taking this work.

its also not unheard of for there to be some under the table cash involved.
 
Fulthrotl

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Location
HB, CA (19 Hrs. 22 Min. from Winged Horses)
Occupation
E
PetrosA said:
The first one is purely out of curiosity - A union bidder submitted a price of $3000 for the two units. What the heck goes into a bid like that?

Second question - does anyone here know what the general policy is for non-union guys doing small jobs in malls? I've heard from some that I could be putting myself in danger by taking the work, on the other hand, to charge that much for this work is gouging the customer by any standards.

I don't want to flame any union vs. non-union fires with these questions, just try and understand the situation better before taking or not taking a job.

Thanks
Click to expand...

ok.... doing one of those is gonna eat two days of someones time, when
it's all said and done. drive over, schlep stuff in, work in an open store,
schlep stuff out, etc. it's not as bad as working in an occupied hospital,
but it's close. everything takes three times as long.

everyone has posted how this works.... what i find interesting is the
"putting myself in danger" concern you have..... you have a concern for
physical danger, or damage to your vehicles or equipment? it isn't 1963...

the left coast isn't the right coast, obviously, but i'm trying to think when
the last time i saw ANY picket line for ANY reason, (not counting the pickets
outside UCLA for the free tibet movement). it's been over five years.

it's two pieces of flex, in two different locations, on two different days.
organized labor isn't setting up a task force on this one. :D
 
2

220/221

Senior Member
Location
AZ
A) It's not gouging if the customer has a choice.

B) I don't think your 3 hour estimate is liberal at all. How are you going to strap that MC?
 
B

bolthead

Member
I am doing a mall job right now and I have no less than 5 hours waiting for the maintenance staff to open the door to the Main electrical room which I have only seen twice. I am required to give 24 hour notice to get a door unlocked. I am also required to load and unload before or after mall hours or I am fined. It sounds to me like the Union shop may have done work there before. I agree with the response earlier that suggested you SCHEDULE a meeting with the mall manager (do not just show up) and discuss all of the restrictions before you submit. Just my opinion but malls are a pain but they can be very profitable if you know how to play by the rules.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top