Working small jobs in malls

[PetrosA]

lots of good points

lots of good points

Thanks for all your input. I appreciate your explanations of why a seemingly simple job could cost that much and it's my fault for either being unaware or too green so points taken on that front.

Turns out the $3000 total was an incorrect price, the real one being closer to $2000 per location. I guess if anything about it bothers me (here's some real honesty...) it's not that the price is so high, but that the regular guys out there like the one I work for are struggling to get $1500 for a 200A overhead service and new 42 circuit panel installed, which is why I get such a crappy salary. It makes it look like we live in a country with serious double standards.

To clarify on my comment about fear of the unions - I was thinking more of damage to vehicles and/or intimidation. I know guys who within the last 5-10 years have had their vehicles cleaned out and tires slashed because they got called into a union jobsite. I haven't heard of physical threats around here since the 1970s.

I'll make the necessary contacts and go from there.

Thanks!

 

[Fulthrotl]

To clarify on my comment about fear of the unions - I was thinking more of damage to vehicles and/or intimidation. I know guys who within the last 5-10 years have had their vehicles cleaned out and tires slashed because they got called into a union jobsite. I haven't heard of physical threats around here since the 1970s.

shoot, i've seen union electricians do that to other union electricians simply
'cause they didn't like country of origin the persons work vehicle came from.

not recently.... but as far back as 1984, there was a very large job
(450 electricians working with the tools) where every import car in the parking
lot had it's doors welded shut, by a certified welder. very nice, professional, 1" beads.
about 300 cars worth, owned by all the trades.

it was the largest construction job going in america at that time. it was pure
dodge city. everyone working 6 12's, and some very strange and weird
people working there. 80% of the labor force was filing exempt, there were
hookers, drugs, and guns on the jobsite. a guy on my crew had a 4" python
and two speedloaders on his tool belt, and nobody said a word.

that was then, this is now. smile, and go do the two plugs for $3,000....
they'll love you. they are saving a thousand dollars.

 

[iwire]

there was a very large job
(450 electricians working with the tools) where every import car in the parking
lot had it's doors welded shut, by a certified welder. very nice, professional, 1" beads.
about 300 cars worth, owned by all the trades.

I love a great yarn.

 

[iwire]

I guess if anything about it bothers me (here's some real honesty...) it's not that the price is so high, but that the regular guys out there like the one I work for are struggling to get $1500 for a 200A overhead service and new 42 circuit panel installed,

And that is why I said earlier that this was not a trip to a home, commercial pays better most of the time.:smile:

 

[muckusmc]

We recently had a call to hook up a water heater in a mall store. Existing w/h was 480V, 3ph. The one supplied by the stores corporate office was 208V, 3ph.
We are non union and I know the union contractor for the mall. This was on a weekend so I called the union contractor to let him know what was going on. Was told to go ahead and run the conduit and install as needed, and did I need a 3 pole breaker for the GE panel? I did, he supplied. No problem. Four hours, 2 men, $4,500.00 with material. Nice. Called the contractor and sent him cost of breaker and said thank you.
Why can't we all just work together?

 

[growler]

Turns out the $3000 total was an incorrect price, the real one being closer to $2000 per location. I guess if anything about it bothers me (here's some real honesty...) it's not that the price is so high, but that the regular guys out there like the one I work for are struggling to get $1500 for a 200A overhead service and new 42 circuit panel installed, which is why I get such a crappy salary. It makes it look like we live in a country with serious double standards.

In times past when commercial was very slow and residential was booming there were companies that had trouble trying to cash in on the residential market. At first many of the companies didn't have vans set up or people trained to do a residential service call at a competitive price.

I went to a job one day and saw 1" rigid conduit ran about two feet off the ground ( just under the windows) from the panel around the house to feed a hot tub. The homeowner was not happy, not because the job was not safe or legal but because it looked so bad. This wasn't a little Mickey Mouse outfit that had done the work but a very large company.

On the other hand I have been to a very exclusive resort and seen Romex run in places where it should not be.

A company has to decide what they are going to do because it's very hard to switch over without experienced people and the correct training.

If your boss wants to do mall work he shouldn't look at it as one job but as a change of course for the company. That way you don't spend a lot of time trying to figure things out for one little job.

 

[charlietuna]

Blaming high bid prices is not only the union's fault. As mentioned, insurance and building specifications as well as allowable working conditions drive the cost of normal electrical installations thru the roof. We worked in DeBartello's malls and had trouble making any money for the first year just due to learning the ropes as was described in above posts. Same with major high rise office buildings. We were required to have $5M liability with a $3M rider! after i bought that, they came back and told me i needed that same coverage on my trucks!!! I told them none of my trucks were even involved on their projects. "Didn't matter" they said, "Just build it into your bid" we were told. We have seen new contractors come into an office building without reading the specs and rough an entire floor(piped and wire pulled) and then be told they didn't use steel EMT fittings----rip it all out and start over--now working overtime to stay up with the pace of the job.

Just consider the cost of a stick of 1/2 EMT ? Supply house can't deliver it early enough ( 6:00AM to 7:30AM "LOADING DOCK RULE #1") to bring it in the loading dock so we had to truck it from our shop-- then off load it and take three different elevators to reach the jobsite floor. Now, we had to guard it until it was installed from other contractors in the building. So you couldn't stockpile anything--just bring in what you could install. I figured i would loose money if i tripled the cost of it ! Without notice, they might be "TESTING" or "INSPECTING" the floor alarm on another floor -- now you don't have service elevators and construction can't use the regular elevators. This goes "on and on"! It didn't make any difference if you were union or none union --- everyone was facing the same problems...

 

[Rewire]

I was asked one tiome why they had to pay travel time being in a humorus mood I said "Scotty has the transporter was down" The customer gave me a look and then it hit him he chucled and wrote the check.

 

[cdslotz]

Has anyone mentioned that the pay can run 60-90 days?

 

[Dnkldorf]

Has anyone mentioned that the pay can run 60-90 days?

If you do a bunch of work for the same outfit, direct deposit (electronic transfer) works real well.

 

[peter d]

visual distractions,

Well that's no problem. Just make sure they know you are looking at them and they will flee very quickly.

 

[PetrosA]

In times past when commercial was very slow and residential was booming there were companies that had trouble trying to cash in on the residential market. At first many of the companies didn't have vans set up or people trained to do a residential service call at a competitive price.

I went to a job one day and saw 1" rigid conduit ran about two feet off the ground ( just under the windows) from the panel around the house to feed a hot tub. The homeowner was not happy, not because the job was not safe or legal but because it looked so bad. This wasn't a little Mickey Mouse outfit that had done the work but a very large company.

On the other hand I have been to a very exclusive resort and seen Romex run in places where it should not be.

A company has to decide what they are going to do because it's very hard to switch over without experienced people and the correct training.

If your boss wants to do mall work he shouldn't look at it as one job but as a change of course for the company. That way you don't spend a lot of time trying to figure things out for one little job.

In this area it's explosion proof boxes that you find in homes from the steel mill that used to leak parts . My boss is definitely not trying to get this job as there's no one calling him to do that kind of work. In the company's 94 year history, they've specialized in mostly residential and very light commercial, and I'm the only guy there who has a clue about running conduit. Sad when you think about it...

 

[ishium 80439]

I didn't read every post word for word but from what I saw the best advice was to talk to management. Some malls allow zero flex (or MC) to the point that your troffers have to be hard piped. It would certainly be a drag to plan on whipping in some cable and than realize that you have to rip it all out again.

On a brighter note it may not be as awful as some of these posts are making it seem. I did a job very similiar in scope for the last company I worked for and it was not that bad. It certainly took longer than if no one was in my way and if could have parked closer but all things considered it wasn't much of a headache.

You just have to plan your work accordingly. Get a hand truck or some type of dolly for your tools, material ladder etc. Bring everything you can think of needing the first time and plan on making one more trip for the items you forgot. Work yourself out w/ the stuff you have, make a list and get everything you forgot all at once, don't think you need to make a trip for every .05 item that you don't have w/ you.

 

[Dnkldorf]

From the 2 or 3 articles I read this morning, malls might be on their out anyway.

Who really knows what will happen?

 

[PetrosA]

one down, one to go...

one down, one to go...

It turned out not to be such a big deal after all. Time estimate was very close including a smoke break with trip to vehicle for parts. The scary thing is seeing that some other guy ran romex in that place for a 20A 208V line and just laid it across the ceiling tiles! Oh, and did I mention the dead rats under the counter cabinets? That's worth some grief money right there. Next time my price will be a lot more similar to the other bid.

 

[PetrosA]

From the 2 or 3 articles I read this morning, malls might be on their out anyway.

Who really knows what will happen?

Yeah, they were talking about that there and I have to say, the place was dead.

 

[quogueelectric]

I dont think I have ever seen an IBEW picket

Maybe not in Fla try this in New York. The mall doesnt want problems and insurance must be provided. Hot work confined space permits for the roof and the truck tunnels. Usually a maintenance electrician floating around checking cards. Usually plenty of other contractors doing new stores all over the place. They may mess with you they may not. You climb up into a ceiling off a 14 foot ladder, You go to get down and your ladder is gone, I have sen this happen in malls. Good ole southern boy tried to mouth up a Hollister store by me badmouthing every trade that worked for him. We just kept our mouths shut and went by the prints. When he figured out the prints didnt work it was just before the grand opening. Had he been more cooperative he wouldnt have had this problem. He almost had a stroke when he got the bill for overtime and extras. I am sure it came out of his bonus The Fire Marshal almost arrested him.

 

[wireguru]

dont forget a cart, like those grey rubbermaid utility carts.

Cant work in a mall without a cart.