I am the plant electrician. We have several electrical panels mounted on a wall. To protect these from forklift damage, the maintenance people have installed a 1 1/2 ft high guard rail in front of the bottom of all of these panels. The guard rail is less than a foot from the front of the panels. The panels are 120/208, 277/480, and 240v. The 277/480 is a 400 amp circuit breaker panel, the door on this panel hits the guard rail before it reachs 90 degrees open. I told them that there needs to be an area at least 36 inches deep, 30inches wide and 6 1/2 feet tall in front of each panel for "working space". The guard rail violates this space. They chose not to believe me and got with our corporate loss prevention engineers who say that they are fine with this installation based on OSHA regs that they site, which read just like the NEC regs. They say that the breakers are accessable with the rail in place, and that the rail can be unbolted and removed if we need to do maintenance on or in the panel. Who is right?
Working space
- Thread starter Ideal3627
- Start date
- Status
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Rule 1 - The boss is always right.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Both of you, sorta-kinda. The rail can be unbolted, but I don't consider that "ready access." I'd ask the local AHJ if unbolt-able barriers are allowable. Is this to be inspected? If so, you can just sit back and keep the "I told you so!" inside.Ideal3627 said:
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
My code book is not handy right now. But I do not recall anything about "ready access" in 110.26. There is no rule that says you have to be able to get to the panel in an emergency to turn something off (for example, to stop a conveyor before someone gets hurt). What the rule says is that the minimum working space must be maintained. The space must be clear, so that an electrician working on the panel not only has room to work, but also has room to fall.
In my view, the guard posts are a violation of 110.26. It does not matter if they can be unbolted. Some electrician is likely to get pressured by the bosses to perform a job with the panel energized and without taking the time to unbolt the guard rail. That situation would place the life of the electrician in immediate danger. Nothing, absolutley nothing makes that right.
About a year or so ago, someone posted on this Forum a story about a maintenance worker who was working on a live panel that could only be accessed by reaching across a guard rail. I don't have time now to search for it, but perhaps someone else could give it a try. The worker's hands contacted a live component while his arms or chest (I don't recall which) were in contact with the guard rail. He is dead.
I would fight this with all your job is worth, because your job is not worth your life.
In my view, the guard posts are a violation of 110.26. It does not matter if they can be unbolted. Some electrician is likely to get pressured by the bosses to perform a job with the panel energized and without taking the time to unbolt the guard rail. That situation would place the life of the electrician in immediate danger. Nothing, absolutley nothing makes that right.
About a year or so ago, someone posted on this Forum a story about a maintenance worker who was working on a live panel that could only be accessed by reaching across a guard rail. I don't have time now to search for it, but perhaps someone else could give it a try. The worker's hands contacted a live component while his arms or chest (I don't recall which) were in contact with the guard rail. He is dead.
I would fight this with all your job is worth, because your job is not worth your life.
ceknight
Senior Member
charlie b said:
I'm with Charlie all the way on this topic. "The space...........shall be dedicated to the electrical installation. No piping, ducts, leak protection apparatus, or other equipment foreign to the electrical installation shall be located in this zone."
Remember that part of that space requirement is to give an energized worker a safe falling zone. Guardrails will fail that test on at least 2 counts -- they could prop the worker up, which is bad, and they can cause a serious injury on the way down, which is also bad.
Tell them to hire better forklift drivers if necessary, or install vertical rails to the left and right of the panel working space, or put fluorescent pink tape on the floor so the forklift drivers can aim to avoid the panels
, or whatever. But you really should hold your ground on this one.How about a few bollards out a little farther.
How about a few bollards out a little farther.
I had the same problem. Forklift drivers hit everything. I had to but bollards in front of drinking fountains edges of garage doors, electrical panels. etc.. Worse I had was a Gas heater tore off the ceiling. Had to evacuate the plant.
National Electrical Code 110.26 Spaces About Electrical Equipment states: ?
Sufficient access and working space shall be provided and maintained about all electric equipment to permit ready and safe operation and maintenance of such equipment. Enclosures housing electrical apparatus that are controlled by lock and key shall be considered accessible to qualified persons.
OSHA 29 1910.303 states: ? Working space about electric equipment. Sufficient access and working space shall be provided and maintained about all electric equipment to permit ready and safe operation and maintenance of such equipment.
Working clearances. Except as required or permitted elsewhere in this subpart, the dimension of the working space in the direction of access to live parts operating at 600 volts or less and likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while alive may not be less than indicated in Table S-1. In addition to the dimensions shown in Table S-1, workspace may not be less than 30 inches wide in front of the electric equipment. Distances shall be measured from the live parts if they are exposed, or from the enclosure front or opening if the live parts are enclosed. Concrete, brick, or tile walls are considered to be grounded. Working space is not required in back of assemblies such as dead-front switchboards or motor control centers where there are no renewable or adjustable parts such as fuses or switches on the back and where all connections are accessible from locations other than the back. (continued)
TABLE S-1 - WORKING CLEARANCES
Minimum clear distance for condition(2) (ft)
Nominal voltage to ground (a) (b) (c)
0-150 (1)3 (1)3 3
151-600 (1)3 3 1/2 4
(1) Minimum clear distances may be 2 feet 6 inches for installations built prior to April 16, 1981.
(2) Conditions (a), (b), and (c), are as follows: (a) Exposed live parts on one side and no live or grounded parts on the other side of the working space, or exposed live parts on both sides effectively guarded by suitable wood or other insulating material. Insulated wire or insulated busbars operating at not over 300 volts are not considered live parts. (b) Exposed live parts on one side and grounded parts on the other side. (c) Exposed live parts on both sides of the workspace [not guarded as provided in Condition (a)] with the operator between.
Clear spaces. Working space required by this subpart may not be used for storage. When normally enclosed live parts are exposed for inspection or servicing, the working space, if in a passageway or general open space, shall be suitably guarded.
Access and entrance to working space. At least one entrance of sufficient area s hall be provided to give access to the working space about electric equipment.
Front working space. Where there are live parts normally exposed on the front of switchboards or motor control centers, the working space in front of such equipment may not be less than 3 feet.
Illumination. Illumination shall be provided for all working spaces about service equipment, switchboards, panelboards, and motor control centers installed indoors.
Headroom. The minimum headroom of working spaces about service equipment, switchboards, panel-boards, or motor control centers shall be 6 feet 3 inches.
How about a few bollards out a little farther.
I had the same problem. Forklift drivers hit everything. I had to but bollards in front of drinking fountains edges of garage doors, electrical panels. etc.. Worse I had was a Gas heater tore off the ceiling. Had to evacuate the plant.
National Electrical Code 110.26 Spaces About Electrical Equipment states: ?
Sufficient access and working space shall be provided and maintained about all electric equipment to permit ready and safe operation and maintenance of such equipment. Enclosures housing electrical apparatus that are controlled by lock and key shall be considered accessible to qualified persons.
OSHA 29 1910.303 states: ? Working space about electric equipment. Sufficient access and working space shall be provided and maintained about all electric equipment to permit ready and safe operation and maintenance of such equipment.
Working clearances. Except as required or permitted elsewhere in this subpart, the dimension of the working space in the direction of access to live parts operating at 600 volts or less and likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while alive may not be less than indicated in Table S-1. In addition to the dimensions shown in Table S-1, workspace may not be less than 30 inches wide in front of the electric equipment. Distances shall be measured from the live parts if they are exposed, or from the enclosure front or opening if the live parts are enclosed. Concrete, brick, or tile walls are considered to be grounded. Working space is not required in back of assemblies such as dead-front switchboards or motor control centers where there are no renewable or adjustable parts such as fuses or switches on the back and where all connections are accessible from locations other than the back. (continued)
TABLE S-1 - WORKING CLEARANCES
Minimum clear distance for condition(2) (ft)
Nominal voltage to ground (a) (b) (c)
0-150 (1)3 (1)3 3
151-600 (1)3 3 1/2 4
(1) Minimum clear distances may be 2 feet 6 inches for installations built prior to April 16, 1981.
(2) Conditions (a), (b), and (c), are as follows: (a) Exposed live parts on one side and no live or grounded parts on the other side of the working space, or exposed live parts on both sides effectively guarded by suitable wood or other insulating material. Insulated wire or insulated busbars operating at not over 300 volts are not considered live parts. (b) Exposed live parts on one side and grounded parts on the other side. (c) Exposed live parts on both sides of the workspace [not guarded as provided in Condition (a)] with the operator between.
Clear spaces. Working space required by this subpart may not be used for storage. When normally enclosed live parts are exposed for inspection or servicing, the working space, if in a passageway or general open space, shall be suitably guarded.
Access and entrance to working space. At least one entrance of sufficient area s hall be provided to give access to the working space about electric equipment.
Front working space. Where there are live parts normally exposed on the front of switchboards or motor control centers, the working space in front of such equipment may not be less than 3 feet.
Illumination. Illumination shall be provided for all working spaces about service equipment, switchboards, panelboards, and motor control centers installed indoors.
Headroom. The minimum headroom of working spaces about service equipment, switchboards, panel-boards, or motor control centers shall be 6 feet 3 inches.
someone should be called ...
someone should be called ...
you didn't say where you work so I'm not sure who you should call ... I think you should inform someone with a bit of authority cuz this is wrong ... where I'm at we have an inspector that is not paid by the company and if I call him about a problem he checks it out and my name never gets mentioned In case you're woried about that type of thing ... our problems get fixed ... m
someone should be called ...
you didn't say where you work so I'm not sure who you should call ... I think you should inform someone with a bit of authority cuz this is wrong ... where I'm at we have an inspector that is not paid by the company and if I call him about a problem he checks it out and my name never gets mentioned In case you're woried about that type of thing ... our problems get fixed ... m
Are you responsible for enforcing safety, or are you satisfied that you have brought it to the attention of the people who will take the heat should some kind of violation come down the pike?
Paranoia could get the best of one, where in a corporate environment, an OSHA violation hits home, and some shift supervisor blames it all on the plant electrician, who should have informed his supervisor...arghhhh!
Ok. Enough of that. "Pick the hill you want to die on," is one of my favorite quotes.
I believe factories and plants are not wholly bound by the NEC...can't remember where I recently came across that information, but I remember being only a little surprised by that information. I worked at IBM for a year with a subcontractor...they had their own electrical inspector, and I never saw hide nor hair of the state electrical inspector
Paranoia could get the best of one, where in a corporate environment, an OSHA violation hits home, and some shift supervisor blames it all on the plant electrician, who should have informed his supervisor...arghhhh!
Ok. Enough of that. "Pick the hill you want to die on," is one of my favorite quotes.
I believe factories and plants are not wholly bound by the NEC...can't remember where I recently came across that information, but I remember being only a little surprised by that information. I worked at IBM for a year with a subcontractor...they had their own electrical inspector, and I never saw hide nor hair of the state electrical inspector
Last edited:
HVAC disconnects
HVAC disconnects
There seems to be a "differencve of opinions" between a few inspectors in this area in regard to working clearance of disconnects for heat & air equipment. I''d be interested in what you guys have to say.
On disconnects mounted at condensor units and at heat or other units mounted in ceilings etc., do you consider these as "...(110-26)
likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized". Some say "no" on the disconnect while maintaining clearance on the unit for servicing. (the comment often provided is that if theres a disconnect problem (non-fuse) its replaced while de-energized and not "serviced or repaired" while energized. Comments?
HVAC disconnects
There seems to be a "differencve of opinions" between a few inspectors in this area in regard to working clearance of disconnects for heat & air equipment. I''d be interested in what you guys have to say.
On disconnects mounted at condensor units and at heat or other units mounted in ceilings etc., do you consider these as "...(110-26)
likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized". Some say "no" on the disconnect while maintaining clearance on the unit for servicing. (the comment often provided is that if theres a disconnect problem (non-fuse) its replaced while de-energized and not "serviced or repaired" while energized. Comments?
redewire
Member
- Location
- North Dakota
Working Space
Working Space
I am a Construction Manager for a National Company who has production lines in 2/3 of Continental States. Working Spaces is a problem that continues to arise on our projects, new and old. Every once in a while I will encounter a Plant Engineer who will debate the clear working space and will instill his/her interpretation, and in most cases this will involve either the adding or taking away of the written language. My final comment to them is the Local Authority in the Jurisdiction has legal and binding authority and their decision is binding and FINAL. I then call upon the inspector having such authority and have them interpret the Code ( such as 110.26 ) and in 37 years they have not let me down.
REDEWIRE
Working Space
I am a Construction Manager for a National Company who has production lines in 2/3 of Continental States. Working Spaces is a problem that continues to arise on our projects, new and old. Every once in a while I will encounter a Plant Engineer who will debate the clear working space and will instill his/her interpretation, and in most cases this will involve either the adding or taking away of the written language. My final comment to them is the Local Authority in the Jurisdiction has legal and binding authority and their decision is binding and FINAL. I then call upon the inspector having such authority and have them interpret the Code ( such as 110.26 ) and in 37 years they have not let me down.
REDEWIRE
- Status