Would it kill you just to give me the page numbers?

[retirede]

There must be lawyer wannabes around there, as a lot of the language used can fall into the category of "legalize". The latter reference falls into that.

Since we’re nitpicking language…..”legalese”

 

[mortimer]

I would suggest a copy of Tom Henry Key Word Index. It really is handy and far better than trying to use the NEC index. Should be available on Amazon for 30 bucks or so.

ABSOLUTELY !!!

 

[mortimer]

Unless you are studying to take the test, because you can't bring that in with you. One step beyond that today, is just use Google. As others have stated, learn the sections, use the table of contents, and the index.

If you are taking an ICC test for electrical inspections, they do allow it.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

There must be lawyer wannabes around there, as a lot of the language used can fall into the category of "legalize". The latter reference falls into that.

Remember that when adopted by a unit of government it becomes a legal document and has to be written so as to be legally enforceable in court.

As far as the actual choice of the wording used, that is specified in the NEC Style Manual. There was a new edition of the Style Manual released in 2020 and there will be a number of changes in the 2023 code that are based on the changed requirements in the Style Manual.

 

[jmellc]

How is either of those harder to understand than the other?

Submit a PI changing all cases of "shall not be less than" to "shall be at least" and see if they bite.

Its just not the way most of us speak day to day and not how we would normally write something. We have enough headaches without having to stop and calibrate our thinking with so many code references.

 

[kwired]

Its just not the way most of us speak day to day and not how we would normally write something. We have enough headaches without having to stop and calibrate our thinking with so many code references.

How people speak day to day does somewhat vary by region as well though.

Guess we need different versions of NEC for different regions? Southern version would say something like "Y'all can't put more them there wires in conduits than it shows in tables XXX.xxx - XXX.xxx"

 

[WA_Sparky]

Id imagine one of the reasons they dont give page numbers is because as content gets added, page number references would need to be updated as well.

 

[kwired]

Id imagine one of the reasons they dont give page numbers is because as content gets added, page number references would need to be updated as well.

exactly. Make a change on page 5 that adds significant content and you need to change every index entry for every page after that fifth page even of the rest of the content remained unchanged.

If indexing by code section instead of page numbers, you can make a lot of changes yet not have to change so much of the index.

 

[ggunn]

One problem with giving page numbers is every time code is updated they may need to go through and verify every one of those just to make sure it is still correct. Plus you would need different page number in say the handbook. Posting section numbers would still be accurate as long as content never moved to a different section.

Actually, I mistyped when I entered the title of the thread; what I meant was article number.

 

[ggunn]

How is either of those harder to understand than the other?

Submit a PI changing all cases of "shall not be less than" to "shall be at least" and see if they bite.

When "not less than" gets confusing is when it is in a sentence combined with other negatives, which I have seen in the NEC.

 

[little guy]

Giving a page number in the Index would require way to much updating on new code cycles as changes often bump and move items from page to page, or add sections that bump everything after it. Try looking up the Codeology method and using keyword with the table of contents. Once you practice enough at this it gets pretty easy.

 

[ggunn]

Giving a page number in the Index would require way to much updating on new code cycles as changes often bump and move items from page to page, or add sections that bump everything after it. Try looking up the Codeology method and using keyword with the table of contents. Once you practice enough at this it gets pretty easy.

As I said a couple of posts back, in the thread title I typed "page number" when I meant to say "article number".

 

[kwired]

As I said a couple of posts back, in the thread title I typed "page number" when I meant to say "article number".

Isn't that what the index has in it? Don't have my latest editions in the office here, they are in the truck, but that is what is in the older editions.

 

[ggunn]

Isn't that what the index has in it? Don't have my latest editions in the office here, they are in the truck, but that is what is in the older editions.

See post #1 but substitute "article numbers" for "page numbers".

 

[kwired]

See post #1 but substitute "article numbers" for "page numbers".

I get that, but they do put article numbers in the index. Your other problem was narrowing down what type of conduit to look for. Unlike electronic versions where you can possibly search for the word "the" and potentially get a very large number of returns they try to be more specific in the printed index so that you don't have such a large list of possible results.

 

[jmellc]

ABSOLUTELY !!!

Never heard of it. I’ll have to check it out.