Would you answer this question from a client?

[e57]

Can you share your labor rate for the job?

I put my bid in the other day - I got that as a reply this afternoon...

This is a reply I'm thinking about:

Only with the expressed written assurance of non-disclosure. I sincerely hope that does not sound crass, defensive or evasive, but I don?t know the other bidders or number of them.

I?ll try to explain below:

The bid for labor is based on (annual billable, non-billable, estimated losses, overhead and profit) ? Then - this labor number is a variable slightly above or even below that from the actual calculation of course, and a substituted number (in competition with other vendors of like product and services) is used?.

On the topic ? my change order rate is stated in the terms and conditions? Which is also a number provided in confidence. I?ll say that the bid labor is close to that and number closer to my operating costs. Both numbers are proprietary for bidding competition.

What would you say????

 

[jxofaltrds]

Can I yes.

Will I no.

 

[realolman]

I don't think you should tell them anything but the bid.

I can't see anything good ( for you ) coming from that. Why would anyone even ask you that?

 

[Buck Parrish]

I only give a labor rate for T & M jobs.

 

[Article 90.1]

I just say "this is what my accountant says I need to charge..."

 

[Volta]

I think that is a respectable reply. Professional, personable, and explains your position. I might repond with a shorter question, to find the reason for asking. Something like, "Are you concerned with how many hours or days this will take"?

That is not likely the ultimate reason, but it does give them a chance to retract the original question somewhat. I bet you are on the high side of the expected price, and they are still interested, but need to be convinced it is worth the cost.

 

[LarryFine]

Can you share your labor rate for the job?

What would you say????

"I didn't assign a labor rate to the quote. I price each part of the job (each circuit, each assembly, etc.) a figure that includes time and material, but not with separate numbers. Anything I tell you would be a fabricated wild guess."

 

[jxofaltrds]

It's a bid.

Will he pay 'your rate' for the extra hours it takes to honor your bid?

 

[e57]

I think that is a respectable reply. Professional, personable, and explains your position. I might repond with a shorter question, to find the reason for asking. Something like, "Are you concerned with how many hours or days this will take"?

That is not likely the ultimate reason, but it does give them a chance to retract the original question somewhat. I bet you are on the high side of the expected price, and they are still interested, but need to be convinced it is worth the cost.

I like the addition/alternative... I'm thinking I'm there - but wants to needle me down somehow... Its for someone who should know better than to ask.... But for thier own home.

 

[satcom]

We are not day labor, and do not work by the hour, we are licensed professional electrical contractors, and give our customers a contract with scope of work, and a total cost for the project.

 

[growler]

Can you share your labor rate for the job?
What would you say????

I would set the dogs loose on him!!!! I quess you can't do that.

There are advantages to being a dog person.

 

[realolman]

It's a bid.

Will he pay 'your rate' for the extra hours it takes to honor your bid?

I think that is an excellent response. If you ask him that, and that is his reason for wanting to know , then by all means tell him.,

We all know that is not his reason , but it will remind him that you are the one taking risks in providing him with a contract and a bid, and one of his benefits in this deal is that there is a top cost to him.... but not to you.

 

[growler]

We all know that is not his reason , but it will remind him that you are the one taking risks in providing him with a contract and a bid, and one of his benefits in this deal is that there is a top cost to him.... but not to you.

I find there are lots of people that are confused about a bid and a job cost estimate. There are those that think an estimate is a bid and those that think a bid is an estimate.

Most people ask for a cost estimate but what the really want and need is a bid with a firm price. But they want an "estimate" and wish to assume that it's a firm price.

People just don't understand that a contractor can come along and give a cheap estimate and not be locked into that price unless the contract has a not to exceed or firm bid price.

 

[480sparky]

Chances are, the customer is trying to get an hourly rate for every bid in order to 'compare apples to apples'.

But it won't work, because your rate is calculated different than the others.

You may figure your hourly rate based on your cost of doing business, while Fly-By-Night Electric does it differently. They artificially lower their hourly rate to make it look good, while raising their mark-up on material to make it up.

So when you bid a job for $5000 ($3000 in labor and $2000 in material), FBNE bids it for $5000 ($2500 in "lower-price" labor and $2500 for material & higher mark-up), the customer only wants to see the hourly labor rate.

Another variable is how many hours you use to calculate your bid. You may be fast, efficient, professional and have the right tools to do the job at $150/hr, while FBNE hires flunkies with basic tools and charges $95/hr. But you can complete the job in 20 hours, while FBNE's crackheads will manage to stretch it out to 28 as they struggle with their inefficiency,lack of tools and less experience.

So simply explain to the customer that there's different methods to achieve the same goal, but one must look at all the variables in order to make an informed decision.

You're adding 2+2 to get to 4, while someone else bids it 1+3.

 

[e57]

Well put 480, and how did you guess my new company name????

 

[e57]

I find there are lots of people that are confused about a bid and a job cost estimate. There are those that think an estimate is a bid and those that think a bid is an estimate.

Most people ask for a cost estimate but what the really want and need is a bid with a firm price. But they want an "estimate" and wish to assume that it's a firm price.

People just don't understand that a contractor can come along and give a cheap estimate and not be locked into that price unless the contract has a not to exceed or firm bid price.

My personal feeling is that they are looking for a bargaining chip - you know - there are some you just don't feel that they got a deal if they didn't haggle some.

 

[e57]

I should add - the first question was an attempt to figure out allowances for material (Like dimmers TBD) and how they would change cost.

 

[480sparky]

Well put 480, and how did you guess my new company name????

It was either Fly-By-Night, or Cut Corners. :grin:

 

[Chamuit]

Lots of good points.

Lots of good points.

I might repond with a shorter question, to find the reason for asking. Something like, "Are you concerned with how many hours or days this will take"?

I agree with Volta. This would be a better first response. It would give you a chance to gauge what it is that the customer is asking for.

. . . but it will remind him that you are the one taking risks in providing him with a contract and a bid, and one of his benefits in this deal is that there is a top cost to him.... but not to you.

This would be a good point to add in.

Only with the expressed written assurance of non-disclosure. I sincerely hope that does not sound crass, defensive or evasive, but I don’t know the other bidders or number of them.

Although this is very valid, you are defining your response with these words. Try to keep any emotion out of this.

My wife says that your explanation is too wordy and confusing. When I have to respond to customers (like this,) I often have my wife read what I have written to make sure things are concise, readable, and unoffensive.

She liked Larry's response:

"I didn't assign a labor rate to the quote. I price each part of the job (each circuit, each assembly, etc.) a figure that includes time and material, but not with separate numbers. Anything I tell you would be a fabricated wild guess."

We both liked satcom's for explaining labor:

We are not day labor, and do not work by the hour, we are licensed professional electrical contractors, and give our customers a contract with scope of work, and a total cost for the project.

 

[e57]

I figured "Tinkers an' Thieves" might suggest a partnership....

And that "Starvin' Sparkie" might suggest low quality...

And "The Greatest Electrician On Earth" is already taken... (Not kidding)

So for the time being - pending completion of FBN filing etc. it's "57 Electric". Which as you can tell is taken directly from my forum user name on a number of forums.... But a number that has followed me around through a number of other things...