Wrong color wire on different systems.

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I agree with both sides

I agree with both sides

Barndog said:
If the NEC does not give you colors to use where are you getting that Black, Red, Blue is for 208/120 and Brown, Orange, Yellow is for 277/480. You should always check the wires. If you just went on the colors in a Junction box you could hook your load up to the wrong system voltage voltage.
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I agree with both sides.I think it should be a mandatory thing to place a proper color coding system .I also believe you should not trust what you see and use a meter on everything .You never know whats been done on repairs, remodels and the next guys methods.For my own practices i believe in uniformity to help other electrician, maintenance in the future and even myself if needed.I understand where both sides are right .
 
Barndog said:
If the NEC does not give you colors to use where are you getting that Black, Red, Blue is for 208/120 and Brown, Orange, Yellow is for 277/480. You should always check the wires. If you just went on the colors in a Junction box you could hook your load up to the wrong system voltage voltage.
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I am getting that from every EC I ever worked for, since 1976. General procedure was always BRB for 120/208 and BOY for 277/480. 240 Delta was orange high leg & black, red or blue for the other 2. White for LV neutral & grey for HV neutral.

Yes, I am fully aware that circuits should be verified. But if I see wiring done in a consistent, logical manner, I may not have to sniff under quite as many rocks. You have obviously never done service work. If you had, you would appreciate consistency.

Speaking of purples, etc., I would think travellers with any odd colors but I would check them out if not sure.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
If he has kept the red and black for the 480, and the brown and yellow for the 120, he is in compliance with the code rules, assuming he put the required signage at the panels.
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....and assuming the color code at the panels has not been established.
 
jmellc said:
Reason NOT to have a color code? Clear as mud.
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Electricity is COLOR BLIND. The problem is that someone who see s a green

wire, without checking with a meter first, could get their hair curled or worse

death.

Just how would we rectify all of the existing installations? Granted in a perfect world

it would be peachy keen to have your wire colors all match but that is not the

world in which we live. My two cents.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Yes, you should have to check because everyone does not follow the rules.

The fact that many do not check is the very reason I would support a code rule that would require all conductors to be black. Then you could never make an assumption based on the wire color.

As far as the use of MC in other colors, that would depend on what the information is on the posting that is required at each panel. If the posting specifies wire color and not a tape marking then you would be required to use MC with colors that match the posting.

Also there is no provision that permits the use of a color other than the ones shown on the informational posting for travelers or switch legs.
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Thats dangerous thinking
 
jusme123 said:
Thats dangerous thinking
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Why???
UL508A, the standard for industrial control panels, color code is: black for all 'line voltage', red for all 'less than line voltage AC' and blue for all 'less than line voltage DC'. Grounded conductors must be white or grey, and grounding conductors must be green.

If it is not unsafe in machines why is would it be in premises?
 
who has last word?

who has last word?

I think most cities/municipalities etc have "preferences" or "known" color schemes that they want. The AHJ having final word is who I would aim to please. I am confindent they surely want what is "norm" according to them. The BRB and BOY coloring plan seems to work in every place I have been to except a few old museums in Washington D.C where 3 phase is yellow brown orange (per rotation) and consistency is key.
 
facemre said:
I think most cities/municipalities etc have "preferences" or "known" color schemes that they want. The AHJ having final word is who I would aim to please. I am confindent they surely want what is "norm" according to them. The BRB and BOY coloring plan seems to work in every place I have been to except a few old museums in Washington D.C where 3 phase is yellow brown orange (per rotation) and consistency is key.
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I have worked from Culpepper VA to Raleigh NC and have never been informed of a "preference" by an AHJ.

In VA the only AHJ you have is DHCD. Local amendments are not allowed nor enforcable by an inspector.
 
jumper said:
I have worked from Culpepper VA to Raleigh NC and have never been informed of a "preference" by an AHJ.

In VA the only AHJ you have is DHCD. Local amendments are not allowed nor enforcable by an inspector.
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Honestly I tried, to find anything that leads anywhere in relation to virginia and your right DHCD seems to be the only place at all. Now with the AHJ lets say at the time is an electrical inspector, looks in a panel and sees the conditions the original poster listed (just color issues) This wouldn't throw up red flags? have him "look" deeper into your work. And if annoyed enough, will now target you for a random neat and workman like failure? We all know If THE MAN wants to get ya, he will
Code or not , we all want to pass inspections and the easiest way to do that is give them nothing to notice other then what they are used to seeing
 
John120/240 said:
Electricity is COLOR BLIND. The problem is that someone who see s a green

wire, without checking with a meter first, could get their hair curled or worse

death.

Just how would we rectify all of the existing installations? Granted in a perfect world

it would be peachy keen to have your wire colors all match but that is not the

world in which we live. My two cents.
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And to add two more cents to the pot- Anybody out there know of electrical work done by someone who is color blind? I do.

How about working on agricultural stuff? Color means nothing to a resourceful, somewhat talented, stingy old hay farmer.

I think there is some wisdom in what don_resqcapt19 proposes.
 
There are not enough (basic) colors to have a separate color code for every possible voltage system that may exist. How would you identify the following systems and phases with colors alone if you had all of these in one facility? Or use same color code on multiple facilities without ever using same color on more than one system. Green is alread lost to EGC, white and gray are lost to grounded conductors that leaves only about 8 or so basic colors for 18 different ungrounded conductors just in this list alone. How do you identify 7 different grounded conductors in this list with only white and gray?

120/240 single phase

120/240 three phase

120/208 three phase

277/480 three phase

347/600 three phase

240 three phase with grounded phase

480 three phase with grounded phase

The colors that have become pretty much the standard for 120/208 and 277/480 are fine but one still needs to verify what they have before just looking at a the colors and assuming. That is part of why the ID method needs posted at each panelboard. Not in NEC but many industrial places have panel voltage posted in obvious place on outside of panels or on outside of discnnects or other enclosures like a machine control panel.
 
jim dungar said:
Why???
UL508A, the standard for industrial control panels, color code is: black for all 'line voltage', red for all 'less than line voltage AC' and blue for all 'less than line voltage DC'. Grounded conductors must be white or grey, and grounding conductors must be green.

If it is not unsafe in machines why is would it be in premises?
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The amperage you are dealing with
 
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