wrong size wire?

[petersonra]

Re: wrong size wire?

Originally posted by bond:
Hi guys, Ive never seen this before but maybe its normal in other places. We are running a service and installing panels for a pre fab tripple decker, we took a walk into the basement and found dozens of #10/2 home runs and just cant believe there were so many,all of these need to be put in panels along with the other circuits,anyway upon further investigation they seemed to have brought 10/2 to all the g.f.c.is and then branched off to other receptacles with #12.My question is even if we know not to put a 30 amp breaker what about anyone else in the future? It does not seem right, also do the gfi"s need to be rated for #10 wire ?why they ran #10 i dont know!! Thank you all

Maybe they did not have any #12 to run that day so rather than go to Home depot to get some #12 they ran #10. Who knows why people do things. The important thing is that this is a safe installation.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: wrong size wire?

Originally posted by roger:
Ramsy, to be fair to those you are inspecting, you would also need to furnish a copy of the rare 2001 NEC.

 

[iwire]

Re: wrong size wire?

Originally posted by physis:
I remember that one.

I find it weird though that someone (and you have) would argue in favor of omitting markings or whatever kind of designations that aren't required solely because only qualified (don't forget, hopefully competent) persons should make any changes.

Information is good to have.

Hi Sam, I do like info as well.

What more needs to be known about my example?

What note would you leave?

I marked the panel schedule as Kitchen counter outlets and Kitchen water heater.

What more would need to be known and why?

George explained it well and I agree, voluntarily going the extra mile is fine, an inspector requiring what is not in the code is another issue entirely.

Here is a link to a thread that has some panels I installed.

Do you mark your grounded conductors?

Why not, it could help the next person?

[ January 02, 2006, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[jbwhite]

Re: wrong size wire?

Regarding the OP. The mfg of the pre fab units may have had problems in the past where the panel was located a long distance from the loads. Using #10 would take into account voltage drop.

Regarding lables. If an inspector told me that he thought it was a good idea, and asked if i minded doing it, I would probably do it. I do it now with straps for one inspector, because he found people using conduits for coat racks and putting hangers on them.

I am, however against an inspector telling me that he can make up code. And I fought the straps thing, until the inspector admitted that it was not code, and that he just liked it. We both avoided a review over this issue.

 

[RayH]

Re: wrong size wire?

All of us has a story that relates to this thread. augie47 inadvertantly hit a huge nerve. We probably all grew up with an over the top (of the code) inspector that would make augie47 look like a slacker, and and inspector that didn't know a (blank) from a (blank). It is only the more strict ones that you hear more about.

[ January 02, 2006, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: RayH ]

 

[physis]

Re: wrong size wire?

Hi Bob.

What my point is Bob is you seem to be actually opposed to unrequired makings. I don't mark very may things where it isn't required. But if I or someone else feels like it's a good idea for a particular situation then dog gone it, what's the big deal?

(In a sarcastic voice) Do I mark my grounded conductors? I think I may have a few times.

 

[ty]

Re: wrong size wire?

Sam,
I think that Bob, myself and others are actually opposed to an inspector requiring un- required markings.

There are alot of things that we all do that are more than CODE minimums, but don't require me to do them. That's looking for a fight.

 

[ramsy]

Re: wrong size wire?

Originally Posted by Iwire:
I would say no, you are not ready to be an inspector.

Augie's panel label issue may be against code, if the breakers are made by Square D.

2002 NEC 110-10 "..products (must be) applied in accordance with their listing.."

Public domain listing for Square D products.
"Electrical equipment should be serviced only by qualified personnel. No responsibility is assumed ..for any consequences arising out of the use (by) ..untrained persons." (See: Square D Company, Data Bulletin 0100DB0101. "Determining Current Carrying Capacity in Special Applications." Cedar Rapids, IA, 06/01. Bottom page)
http://ecatalog.squared.com/techlib/docdetail.cfm?oid=0900892680055936

Now, am I ready to be an inspector?

 

[George Stolz]

Re: wrong size wire?

Dude, you just won yourself a fan. That's (expletive) hysterical!

Where have you been since July?

 

[Minuteman]

Re: wrong size wire?

Ramsy

I agree, that is awsome!

 

[iwire]

Re: wrong size wire?

Originally posted by ramsy:
2002 NEC 110-10 "..products (must be) applied in accordance with their listing..

Now, am I ready to be an inspector?

Not sure yet.

I do not think 110.10 is the code section to apply here.

110.10 Circuit Impedance and Other Characteristics.

I think you wanted to cite 110.3(B)

110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation, and Use of Equipment.

(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.

Glad you have a sense of humor, it helps around here.

 

[ramsy]

Re: wrong size wire?

Originally Posted by Iwire:
Not sure yet. ..I think you wanted to cite 110.3(B)

That works too. And, I like it.

[ January 04, 2006, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: ramsy ]

 

[physis]

Re: wrong size wire?

Hi Todd.

By Todd:

Sam,
I think that Bob, myself and others are actually opposed to an inspector requiring un- required markings.

Of course Todd. I think everybody's opposed to that. I didn't address that because it's so axiomatic.

 

[ty]

Re: wrong size wire?

I like the old Sam

 

[physis]

Re: wrong size wire?

I like the old Todd.

 

[bond]

Re: wrong size wire?

Wow, I guess i really opened up a can of worms with this one, I will take all this in now and i thank you all for the response,maybe one day i will get involved with topics but for now i have to use the library and thats why it takes me so long to respond, thanks again, this was a Doozy