jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Can anyone point me to right code on where i stand with outside x mas light receptales.gfci or not ?
x mas light receptacles
- Thread starter jimwalker
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: x mas light receptacles
Presuming you are talking about a receptacle outlet that is installed outdoors, and that is used by the owner to power the holiday lights, then I agree with Physis. But what if the lights are plugged into an indoors receptacle, by running the power cord through a partially open window?
Or what if (this actually happened at the house I rented five years ago) the previous tenant drilled a hold in a basement window sill, ran a cord through that hole
would this have been in violation of the GFI requirements?
I am not sure what you are really asking about, but here is my take on GCI and holiday lights. The lights themselves do not require a GFI device to be included in their power supply. However, if they get power from an outdoor receptacle, then that receptacle does need GFI protection, simply because it is outdoors.
Presuming you are talking about a receptacle outlet that is installed outdoors, and that is used by the owner to power the holiday lights, then I agree with Physis. But what if the lights are plugged into an indoors receptacle, by running the power cord through a partially open window?
Or what if (this actually happened at the house I rented five years ago) the previous tenant drilled a hold in a basement window sill, ran a cord through that hole
would this have been in violation of the GFI requirements?I am not sure what you are really asking about, but here is my take on GCI and holiday lights. The lights themselves do not require a GFI device to be included in their power supply. However, if they get power from an outdoor receptacle, then that receptacle does need GFI protection, simply because it is outdoors.
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: x mas light receptacles
In my opinion, the manufacturers of decorative ligthing and displays should be responsible for incorporating gfci protection as an integral part of the cord sets.
Considering room a/c's are required to have integral LCDI or AFCI protection and also vending machines having integral gfci protection, why can't Christmas Light sets have them?
In my opinion, the manufacturers of decorative ligthing and displays should be responsible for incorporating gfci protection as an integral part of the cord sets.
Considering room a/c's are required to have integral LCDI or AFCI protection and also vending machines having integral gfci protection, why can't Christmas Light sets have them?
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: x mas light receptacles
I was thinking yes but wasnt sure.Situation is 3 under soffit and 3 on dormers over roof.They are not accesable from ground level and are controlled by a switch inside house.I hate the idea of a gfci receptacle in a hard to reach area.Will try to talk my boss into a gfci breaker if they indeed are required to be protected.They are outside on dedicated 20 amp
I was thinking yes but wasnt sure.Situation is 3 under soffit and 3 on dormers over roof.They are not accesable from ground level and are controlled by a switch inside house.I hate the idea of a gfci receptacle in a hard to reach area.Will try to talk my boss into a gfci breaker if they indeed are required to be protected.They are outside on dedicated 20 amp
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: x mas light receptacles
I think gfci on them would be just as unsafe as not having them.Would they be getting on a snow filled roof to reset them ?
I think gfci on them would be just as unsafe as not having them.Would they be getting on a snow filled roof to reset them ?
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: x mas light receptacles
Thats not a bad idea.I just cant see anyone wanting to get on the roof to reset a gfci either receptacle or on a cord.I do see a hazard with installer doing it while they are on.I thought i read some place that gfci was reqquired but cant find it
Thats not a bad idea.I just cant see anyone wanting to get on the roof to reset a gfci either receptacle or on a cord.I do see a hazard with installer doing it while they are on.I thought i read some place that gfci was reqquired but cant find it
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: x mas light receptacles
Actually, I think you have the most elegant solution: using a GFI breaker. I have no idea how the price of that option compares to other choices, but engineers like ?elegant? solutions.
[ May 05, 2005, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: charlie b ]
That?s a good point. No sense placing the owner at risk, when he tries to reset a tripped GFI. But at what location will the plug of the light strings connect to a receptacle? If that point is outdoors, then the outlet will require GFI, per the article cited by Physis. If that point is indoors, then you don't "need" a GFI.
Actually, I think you have the most elegant solution: using a GFI breaker. I have no idea how the price of that option compares to other choices, but engineers like ?elegant? solutions.
[ May 05, 2005, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: charlie b ]
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: x mas light receptacles
they are outdoors.Was just not sure when the code changed to require them even if under sofit.I will push for the breaker.Lots safer.
they are outdoors.Was just not sure when the code changed to require them even if under sofit.I will push for the breaker.Lots safer.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: x mas light receptacles
Jim, let's start with "Which NEC issue is your locality using? It's easy to forget that different states adopt at different times.
Here in Va., we just went to the '99 code 10/1/03(!)
Jim, let's start with "Which NEC issue is your locality using? It's easy to forget that different states adopt at different times.
Here in Va., we just went to the '99 code 10/1/03(!)
Re: x mas light receptacles
Charlie:
GFI breakers run about $40 and up compared to $12 and up for receptacles.
By the way, what in the heck happened to the price of GFCI outlets? Last time I bought one (3-4 years ago) I think I paid 4 to 5 dollars. Now you can't get one for less than $12. And 20A ones are $25. That's crazy.
I wonder if the price went up just because the code requires them in more places now. Or are there stricter requirements on the internal parts that caused the price to go up?
Steve
Charlie:
GFI breakers run about $40 and up compared to $12 and up for receptacles.
By the way, what in the heck happened to the price of GFCI outlets? Last time I bought one (3-4 years ago) I think I paid 4 to 5 dollars. Now you can't get one for less than $12. And 20A ones are $25. That's crazy.
I wonder if the price went up just because the code requires them in more places now. Or are there stricter requirements on the internal parts that caused the price to go up?
Steve
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Re: x mas light receptacles
harbour freight still sells them for $6 or so on sale.
harbour freight still sells them for $6 or so on sale.
physis
Senior Member
Re: x mas light receptacles
I go through this all the time Steve. Our economy has become so volitile I can't rely on materials pricing for even a week sometimes.
I don't know what's going on. I feel like I operate in some kind of third world bizzar. Inflation, legal requirements, conglomerations and monopolies, lawyers, government over-involvement.
Wheeee.
I go through this all the time Steve. Our economy has become so volitile I can't rely on materials pricing for even a week sometimes.
I don't know what's going on. I feel like I operate in some kind of third world bizzar. Inflation, legal requirements, conglomerations and monopolies, lawyers, government over-involvement.
Wheeee.
joebell
Senior Member
- Location
- New Hampshire
Re: x mas light receptacles
Jim I think Physis's idea of load siding a GFCI is probally the easiest. 210.8(A)(3) does have an exception for ice melting equipment but I think where the x-mas lights usually have a female plug end on them they could by extention bring the power to ground level and cause a hazard, ie running them down a corner board of a house.
Jim I think Physis's idea of load siding a GFCI is probally the easiest. 210.8(A)(3) does have an exception for ice melting equipment but I think where the x-mas lights usually have a female plug end on them they could by extention bring the power to ground level and cause a hazard, ie running them down a corner board of a house.
Re: x mas light receptacles
If you reverse polarity wire it, it trips.
Not only did the mfgs jack the price, they pulled the cover plate out of the box so you need to get one of those also (indoor).
Oh well--another cost passed on to customers.
The GFIs got smart. If you wire it backwards, it trips. You have to fix the bad wiring.
If you reverse polarity wire it, it trips.
Not only did the mfgs jack the price, they pulled the cover plate out of the box so you need to get one of those also (indoor).
Oh well--another cost passed on to customers.
Re: x mas light receptacles
found them in a 3-pack for $24.95 at the depot...
not on sale....regular price....individual costs
$11.95....Christmas lights can be a pain...especially in the older homes that did not have any outside receptacles at all....called them extention cord heaven!
lights on the house, roof, santa and frosty in the yard....don't forget those floodlights that
stick in the ground and shine up toward the manger scene.....4,000lights, 14 extension cords,
and rudolph in a pear tree!
found them in a 3-pack for $24.95 at the depot...
not on sale....regular price....individual costs
$11.95....Christmas lights can be a pain...especially in the older homes that did not have any outside receptacles at all....called them extention cord heaven!
lights on the house, roof, santa and frosty in the yard....don't forget those floodlights that
stick in the ground and shine up toward the manger scene.....4,000lights, 14 extension cords,
and rudolph in a pear tree!
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