x mas light receptacles
- Thread starter jimwalker
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pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: x mas light receptacles
210.8(3) requires all outdoor receptacles of 15 or 20 ampere, rated at 125v to be GFCI protected... the only exception is for snow-melting equipment.
Of course that requirement is for dwelling units.
[ May 06, 2005, 11:32 PM: Message edited by: pierre ]
210.8(3) requires all outdoor receptacles of 15 or 20 ampere, rated at 125v to be GFCI protected... the only exception is for snow-melting equipment.
Of course that requirement is for dwelling units.
[ May 06, 2005, 11:32 PM: Message edited by: pierre ]
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: x mas light receptacles
Big John
The 6'6" you are referring to is the requirement of having an outlet at the front and rear of a dwelling, if it is over 6'6" above grade it can not be counted as one of these receptacles.
See 210.52(E)
This gets confused with not requiring it to be GFCI protected but as Pierre said it's not true as all receptacles outdoors has to be GFCI protected with the exception of de-iceing receptacles which still have to be GFP protected. See 426.28
[ May 06, 2005, 11:50 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
Big John
The 6'6" you are referring to is the requirement of having an outlet at the front and rear of a dwelling, if it is over 6'6" above grade it can not be counted as one of these receptacles.
See 210.52(E)
This gets confused with not requiring it to be GFCI protected but as Pierre said it's not true as all receptacles outdoors has to be GFCI protected with the exception of de-iceing receptacles which still have to be GFP protected. See 426.28
[ May 06, 2005, 11:50 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
Re: x mas light receptacles
If a residential outdoor receptacle is theoretically out of reach from the ground, it theoretically does not need to be GFCI unless it is running a roof deicing system. However, if you have aluminum siding omitting the GFCI is a bad idea. Also omitting the GFCI is a bad idea if the light string has part if it accessible from the ground.
Also, the price of wiring supplies went through the roof because of the hurricane camage down south. Alas, I am not allowed to go there and help because in order to get a license I need to prove that I have $6,000 in net positive assets in addition to 6 years of experience. I can only document 5 years of experience in the past 12 because I cannot competer against people who have a million dollars in training from the U.S. military. Turns out that the people who were born before 1960 do not want help from people who were born after 1960.
If a residential outdoor receptacle is theoretically out of reach from the ground, it theoretically does not need to be GFCI unless it is running a roof deicing system. However, if you have aluminum siding omitting the GFCI is a bad idea. Also omitting the GFCI is a bad idea if the light string has part if it accessible from the ground.
Also, the price of wiring supplies went through the roof because of the hurricane camage down south. Alas, I am not allowed to go there and help because in order to get a license I need to prove that I have $6,000 in net positive assets in addition to 6 years of experience. I can only document 5 years of experience in the past 12 because I cannot competer against people who have a million dollars in training from the U.S. military. Turns out that the people who were born before 1960 do not want help from people who were born after 1960.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: x mas light receptacles
Mc5W
"If a residential outdoor receptacle is theoretically out of reach from the ground, it theoretically does not need to be GFCI unless it is running a roof deicing system."
Where did you get this info from?
210.8 and a few other locations such as 210.63 etc... have requirements that are not too difficult to understand. So I am not too sure where your reasoning comes from.
Think of this... a receptacle that is more than 6'-6" from grade is installed. a person plugs in an extension cord and uses it to cut their hedges, with the cord now laying in the wet grass... HMMM!!!
Mc5W
"If a residential outdoor receptacle is theoretically out of reach from the ground, it theoretically does not need to be GFCI unless it is running a roof deicing system."
Where did you get this info from?
210.8 and a few other locations such as 210.63 etc... have requirements that are not too difficult to understand. So I am not too sure where your reasoning comes from.
Think of this... a receptacle that is more than 6'-6" from grade is installed. a person plugs in an extension cord and uses it to cut their hedges, with the cord now laying in the wet grass... HMMM!!!
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: x mas light receptacles
Pierre's right, Mike. The GFI wouldn't be required for deicing equipment. Otherwise, it's outdoors, it needs GFCI protection.
I had my own eye-opener on this a few months ago. Skimming code is a killer. It's so easy to remember the exceptions to 210.8 under the wrong scenarios!
Pierre's right, Mike. The GFI wouldn't be required for deicing equipment. Otherwise, it's outdoors, it needs GFCI protection.
I had my own eye-opener on this a few months ago. Skimming code is a killer. It's so easy to remember the exceptions to 210.8 under the wrong scenarios!
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: x mas light receptacles
In the 2005 in non-dwelling occupancies only outlets exposed to 'the public' require GFCI protection.
Remember under the 2002 that would only be for dwelling units, no such requirement for non-dwelling occupancies
In the 2005 in non-dwelling occupancies only outlets exposed to 'the public' require GFCI protection.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: x mas light receptacles
Are you saying housemonkey's forget to read the "Other Than Dwelling Unit" portions of code?
Are you saying housemonkey's forget to read the "Other Than Dwelling Unit" portions of code?
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: x mas light receptacles
I am saying maintenance men have to read those other parts.
[ May 07, 2005, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
fo' shizzleOriginally posted by georgestolz:
Are you saying housemonkey's forget to read the "Other Than Dwelling Unit" portions of code?
I am saying maintenance men have to read those other parts.
[ May 07, 2005, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: x mas light receptacles
Problem is solved,my boss agrees that since this is an extra anyways we will go with a gfci breaker.My thinking was back maybe 10 years ago that there was something about being 7'6" up that it did not need a gfci.Like on a second floor balcony.Maybe i could get away with saying its for ICE MELTING.Never know when Tampa Fl. might get ice
Problem is solved,my boss agrees that since this is an extra anyways we will go with a gfci breaker.My thinking was back maybe 10 years ago that there was something about being 7'6" up that it did not need a gfci.Like on a second floor balcony.Maybe i could get away with saying its for ICE MELTING.Never know when Tampa Fl. might get ice
luke warmwater
Senior Member
Re: x mas light receptacles
Jim,
from memory, I believe it was the 1993 Code that allowed no GFCI protection on dwelling unit outdoor receptacles above 6'6"
I believe the 1996 or the 1999 Code changed it to require GFCI protection on all dwelling unit outdoor receptacles.
I also believe, from memory, that was the same Code cycle that no longer permitted a rear weatherproof receptacle to be wired off one of the Small Appliance circuts.
Good choice of the GFCI Breaker in this design.
Jim,
from memory, I believe it was the 1993 Code that allowed no GFCI protection on dwelling unit outdoor receptacles above 6'6"
I believe the 1996 or the 1999 Code changed it to require GFCI protection on all dwelling unit outdoor receptacles.
I also believe, from memory, that was the same Code cycle that no longer permitted a rear weatherproof receptacle to be wired off one of the Small Appliance circuts.
Good choice of the GFCI Breaker in this design.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: x mas light receptacles
Thanks,i thought maybe i had lost it .Not a very common thing here to get involved in x mas receptacles.Somehow remembered needing to do this on a house about 3 years agne of the hardest things i find in wiring is to remove old code compliant things out of my mind.This has been a very trying week.Wiring a house after not touching one in a year is not easy.Getting an 8 year helper that never did residential has added to problems.But he caught on pretty quick.
Thanks,i thought maybe i had lost it .Not a very common thing here to get involved in x mas receptacles.Somehow remembered needing to do this on a house about 3 years ag
ne of the hardest things i find in wiring is to remove old code compliant things out of my mind.This has been a very trying week.Wiring a house after not touching one in a year is not easy.Getting an 8 year helper that never did residential has added to problems.But he caught on pretty quick.allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: x mas light receptacles
Jim hope our phone conversation answered any other questions you had.As far as chrismas light eve receptacled i usually have our guys run an extra circuit to a gfci device in the garage and hit the soffit receps from there.A few extra bucks but cheaper than sending a service crew to reset a gfci device on a 2nd story soffit
I agree the cost of these new gfci devices is out of bounds,but it does make it easier to trouble shoot some simple trim out blunders.I also like the light that tell you if there is line power without having to open the receptacle and test it.Power at the receptacle won`t test trip and other load sided receps are dead well you have to open it to swap line and load :roll:
Jim hope our phone conversation answered any other questions you had.As far as chrismas light eve receptacled i usually have our guys run an extra circuit to a gfci device in the garage and hit the soffit receps from there.A few extra bucks but cheaper than sending a service crew to reset a gfci device on a 2nd story soffit
I agree the cost of these new gfci devices is out of bounds,but it does make it easier to trouble shoot some simple trim out blunders.I also like the light that tell you if there is line power without having to open the receptacle and test it.Power at the receptacle won`t test trip and other load sided receps are dead well you have to open it to swap line and load :roll:
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