You make the call 10-23-08

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ivsenroute

ivsenroute

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Location
Florida
Found this today. What is your call?

2awg aluminum SE cable from the POCO to the 100amp meter base to the main breaker of the 200amp panel with 28 circuits in it. Residential.
 
Unless it has a 100 amp main breaker it is in violation, I'll make the call just leave the phone number. :D

add note, if it were a feeder from a distribution panel it would need a 90 amp breaker.
 
It will eventually heat at the points of termination. This will cause the metal to break down and coarode. Then the lugs will get hotter an turn cherry red and melt. This ussually happens on a cold icy night. Then you will have to replace the panel.
But other then that, depending on the load. It might work fine for many years.
 
ivsenroute said:
2awg aluminum SE cable from the POCO to the 100amp meter base to the main breaker of the 200amp panel with 28 circuits in it. Residential.
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Ah, the good ol' Fly-By-Night panel upgrade....

If they had just kept the old OCPD and fed the 200A from it they'd probably be fine, load-wise (assuming gas appliances). :)
 
buckofdurham said:
It will eventually heat at the points of termination. This will cause the metal to break down and coarode. Then the lugs will get hotter an turn cherry red and melt. This ussually happens on a cold icy night. Then you will have to replace the panel.
But other then that, depending on the load. It might work fine for many years.
Click to expand...

Wow, are you trying to put the fear of Oct.31 into him. I don't know as I would go so far as to say "it will" melt, maybe could melt, but definitely I would say "Fix it". :smile:
 
It has been like this since the late 80's but now that I saw it, the time has come for change.

OK, we know it is a problem but come on guys, what code section would you cite? tic toc
 
ivsenroute said:
It has been like this since the late 80's but now that I saw it, the time has come for change.

OK, we know it is a problem but come on guys, what code section would you cite? tic toc
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230.42(B) and maybe more.
 
I like my 230.42(B) over 310.15&16 It makes the guy who did it have to look a lot more at the code book before he gets to 310.15, maybe even learn something in the process. :D
 
OK, in my opinion 230.42(B) would be the primary citation and 310.15 in general would also apply.

The safety factor lies in the actual load served.

Since they have 26 circuits and the NEC 2005 would apply for any repairs, would that affect what panel rating or service size we would need?

In other words, if the calculated load was 75 amps continuous, could we use a 100 amp panel with all 26 circuits?

OR would an upgrade be required to a larger service?
 
ivsenroute said:
OK, in my opinion 230.42(B) would be the primary citation and 310.15 in general would also apply.

The safety factor lies in the actual load served.

Since they have 26 circuits and the NEC 2005 would apply for any repairs, would that affect what panel rating or service size we would need?

In other words, if the calculated load was 75 amps continuous, could we use a 100 amp panel with all 26 circuits?

OR would an upgrade be required to a larger service?
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If the calculated load is less then the max ampere rating of the service conductors it would make no difference how many branch circuit breakers there are 26 or 126 it all has to do with the load calcs.
 
If the calculated load is less then the max ampere rating of the service conductors it would make no difference how many branch circuit breakers there are 26 or 126 it all has to do with the load calcs.
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Excellent. I was hoping to catch some of the old timers when we had limitations on 100amp panels circuits.

We are still limited but not by panel size. It is now a 42 overcurrent device limitation.

So in this case I want the electrician to show me a load calc so that we can decide what has to be done. The seller of the house wants to spend as little money as possible so they will either have to downgrade the panel or upgrade the service.
 
ivsenroute said:
2awg aluminum SE cable from the POCO to the 100amp meter base to the main breaker of the 200amp panel with 28 circuits in it. Residential.

What is your call?
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Non-permitted upgrade. Seen it many times.
 
buckofdurham said:
It will eventually heat at the points of termination. This will cause the metal to break down and coarode. Then the lugs will get hotter an turn cherry red and melt. This ussually happens on a cold icy night. Then you will have to replace the panel.
Click to expand...
Or at the meter terminals, requiring a new meter base. Seen that, too.
 
480sparky said:
I'll take 310.15 for $1,000, Alex.
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I'm sorry sparky the correct answer is, "What is 90.2(B)(5)."

Of course if the meter is seperate from the panel then the feeder size is to small per table 310.15(B)(6)
 
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cowboyjwc said:
I'm sorry sparky the correct answer is, "What is 90.2(B)(5)."
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90.2 (B)(5) a-b-or c ? This is SE cable not a service drop or service lateral.
I think who ever did this would say "What is the NEC Alex ?" :grin:
 
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