You make the call 10-23-08

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ivsenroute said:
Found this today. What is your call?

2awg aluminum SE cable from the POCO to the 100amp meter base to the main breaker of the 200amp panel with 28 circuits in it. Residential.
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#2 al se, is not rated for 100 amps
 
acrwc10 said:
90.2 (B)(5) a-b-or c ? This is SE cable not a service drop or service lateral.
I think who ever did this would say "What is the NEC Alex ?" :grin:
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Maybe I read the question wrong. Are we talking from the connection point down? Then I would agree, but if the POCO is going straight to the meter base then it falls under 90.2(B)(5) in the 2005.

Here in CA, 99.9% of the time it's an all-in-one and while the local POCO likes to tell us that they have control of everything to the line side of the meter, we actually control the riser and the conductors in it. But even if you upgraded from a 100 to 400 amp service, they will usually not chage the size of their service drop.
 
cowboyjwc said:
Maybe I read the question wrong. Are we talking from the connection point down? Then I would agree, but if the POCO is going straight to the meter base then it falls under 90.2(B)(5) in the 2005.

Here in CA, 99.9% of the time it's an all-in-one and while the local POCO likes to tell us that they have control of everything to the line side of the meter, we actually control the riser and the conductors in it. But even if you upgraded from a 100 to 400 amp service, they will usually not chage the size of their service drop.
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I love the good old POCO "we are in control of every thing on the line side of the meter". Until they neutral breaks and blows out 10k worth of stuff in the house then it's "the customer is responcible for making sure the conductors don't get damaged by trees, etc.". :rolleyes:
 
ivsenroute said:
Not without a calculated load. What if the calculated load is 82amp continuous?
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Re-calculate. :wink:


In that case you know what the NEC requires but without doing the calculations it is all speculation.
 
I agree with JohnJ0906 and cowboyjwc that table 310.15B6 is the call.(shall be permitted to use) other wise table 310 would be required.

Rick
 
electricmanscott said:
It's been fine for 20 years. :D

How about a little background on this?
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That is the installers counter comment to the inspectors "What if" comment. :grin:
 
ivsenroute said:
And they continue to add to it.

Bottom line, it is illegal and must be replaced with the appropriate sized service.
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If you have not performed a load calculation how do you know what the bottom line is? :-?
 
ivsenroute said:
Did you read any of my posts at all? Go back and read.:rolleyes:
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I did read them, and I went back and read them again.

Yes the present installation is in violation, it seemed we all agreed about that.

I just don't agree that a bottom line can be determined without a proper load calculation. A 100 amp service might be enough .... or not, but we are guessing.
 
iwire said:
Re-calculate.
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nomad.jpg


"Must re-evaluate! Re-evaluate!"​
 
A portion of a previous post by me:

So in this case I want the electrician to show me a load calc so that we can decide what has to be done. The seller of the house wants to spend as little money as possible so they will either have to downgrade the panel or upgrade the service.
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acrwc10 said:
I love the good old POCO "we are in control of every thing on the line side of the meter". Until they neutral breaks and blows out 10k worth of stuff in the house then it's "the customer is responsible for making sure the conductors don't get damaged by trees, etc.". :rolleyes:
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AARRRRGGGG!!!!!​

Why is it that the serving electric utility is always hit with this kind of statements? Have you considered cracking their service manual to see what their actual rules for service actually are in their service territory? Most (all?) electric utilities would like to be contacted when the customer's service is upgraded so that they may upgrade as well!

From the electric utility's point of view:
I love the good old EC "we are in control of every thing on the load side of the meter". Until the service is overloaded, the service drop burns down, and then "the POCO is responsible for making sure the conductors are large enough." :rolleyes:
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AARRRRGGGG!!!!!​

Yep, we both make mistakes and we both are culpable. We ask for notification but, if the person you talk to is not interested, notification does no good. That is why an open neutral problem is sometimes dismissed as the customer's problem and it is necessary to stay with it to talk to his supervisor or go to an engineer.

When you get results and the person you are dealing with in the electric utility, keep track of who he is and what his contact information is so you can contact him in the future. Develop a friendly relationship so you may call he and get results again in the future. :)
 
ivsenroute said:
Not without a calculated load. What if the calculated load is 82amp continuous?
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The utility company serves the calculated load while we feed from the OCPD size. This most often results in different size conductors.

The size of the distribution and quantity of breaker spaces do not determine the service or feeder size. In other words this 100A service can be compliant with 200A service disconnect panelboard including 42 spaces even with another sub panel fed from it. The calculated load needs to be known, I think the electrician should calculate the load and the customer should be prepared to pay for this service.
 
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