You need more than the NEC

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sandsnow

sandsnow

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I got the ECM Code Watch newletter today and want to make a comment on Mike's contribution.

The drawing shows a panelboard installed at a stairway mid landing. Mike is correct in that the NEC allows this installation. The big "BUT" here is that the IBC does not permit this when installed in an enclosed stairwell; called an exit enclosure in the IBC. As pictured that would be ok in a dwelling unit, but not a commercial bldg 90% of the time.

My point is that the NEC rules are not the only thing an electrician needs to know.

In my opinion there should have at least been a mention of what is required by the building code. You can get in real trouble if you blindly follow the NEC.
 
Larry, I assume you are putting a proposal in to that effect? I would be happy to help a FPN along in the panel meeting. It would also be nice if it were vetted and submitted by the IAEI. :)
 
There's so many other codes and standards that apply to electrical work, it's hard to keep track of. Each and every one of the I-codes has an electrical section. It's pretty often that my work is being inspected to the International Existing Building Code, or the International Property Maintenance Code, both of which are quite different than the NEC. Not the mention the UL Orange Book requirements many of us bump into on a daily basis.
 
This would not be allowed because a stairwell used as an exit corridor is one hour rated and a panel is not allowed in a rated wall. Remember that "wrapping" the panel is not an approved installation method.
 
cowboyjwc said:
This would not be allowed because a stairwell used as an exit corridor is one hour rated and a panel is not allowed in a rated wall. Remember that "wrapping" the panel is not an approved installation method.
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Yeah, but we surface mount the panel on top of the fire rated drywall in a garage wall when it abuts living space and build a fire rated chase around it. You could do that in a stairwell if you wanted to be really pig-headed about it.
 
cowboyjwc said:
This would not be allowed because a stairwell used as an exit corridor is one hour rated and a panel is not allowed in a rated wall. Remember that "wrapping" the panel is not an approved installation method.
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really, I mean you guys actually toe the line on that one. I've known for years that there is no tested system for a panelboard in a fire resistive wall.

The kitchen table method of wrapping the panel in drywall is just bogus. That was from decades ago when penetrations were still being protected with mud and tape.

I'm glad to see you guys are on top of it.

BTW there is this system for a "utility box". Maybe someday there will be one for a panelboard cabinet.

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/...n=versionless&parent_id=1073995580&sequence=1
 
mdshunk said:
Yeah, but we surface mount the panel on top of the fire rated drywall in a garage wall when it abuts living space and build a fire rated chase around it. You could do that in a stairwell if you wanted to be really pig-headed about it.
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Furring out on top of fire resistive construction is the way to go. That garage wall fire rated thing is a stretch in my opinion. You just can't have a "half one hour wall" It's just 5/8 on one side. No rating.
 
A panel mounted in an enclosed stairwell runs into more problems than with other rated walls. IBC (2006) Section 1020.1.2 prohibits penetrations into the stair enclosure for anything that is not necessary to serve the stairway. So, even if you surface mount the panel or use some other method to preserve the fire rating of the wall, you still can't bring the feeder and branch circuits feeding other parts of the building into the stairway.
 
eprice said:
A panel mounted in an enclosed stairwell runs into more problems than with other rated walls. IBC (2006) Section 1020.1.2 prohibits penetrations into the stair enclosure for anything that is not necessary to serve the stairway. So, even if you surface mount the panel or use some other method to preserve the fire rating of the wall, you still can't bring the feeder and branch circuits feeding other parts of the building into the stairway.
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Thanks, that was what I was trying to say in my first post.
 
eprice said:
A panel mounted in an enclosed stairwell runs into more problems than with other rated walls. IBC (2006) Section 1020.1.2 prohibits penetrations into the stair enclosure for anything that is not necessary to serve the stairway. So, even if you surface mount the panel or use some other method to preserve the fire rating of the wall, you still can't bring the feeder and branch circuits feeding other parts of the building into the stairway.
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What if that space under stairwell is sprinkled ?
 
Here’s another thought, the fire rating starts on the face of the gypsum,
a rating is obtained to the enclosed space, why isn't it expectable to back board the panel ?

Here's an example:
The floor joists (wood/ or steel) above a dictated space, like an elevator room,
(I can't think of anything else that gets a dictated space) ?

If you made that a 2-hour rated space by using gypsum 2 layers, can't the rafters be a raceway for other conduits, that never enter this space?
 
mdshunk said:
Yeah, but we surface mount the panel on top of the fire rated drywall in a garage wall when it abuts living space and build a fire rated chase around it. You could do that in a stairwell if you wanted to be really pig-headed about it.
Click to expand...

I didn't say there wasn't ways around mounting a panel on a rated wall.
 
cadpoint said:
What if that space under stairwell is sprinkled ?
Click to expand...

Sprinkling the space under the stairwell, or the stairwell itself for that matter does not create an exception to IBC 1020.1.2.
 
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