Your DMM

[jumper]

I can't wait for the new year and a chance to by some Fluke secret decoder glasses.

These...........

 

[Fulthrotl]

Nobody cares about the product any more. All the suites in the offices think they need is a recognizable brand name and they start sticking it on anything they can. I can't wait for the new year and a chance to by some Fluke secret decoder glasses.

it's called cashing out the equity in a brand name, milking it for all it's worth.
fluke has been doing it for 15 years now.

i'm done buying new fluke stuff. however, the older stuff was what the reputation
was built on. and, buying used stuff doesn't give fluke a dime. so......

the fluke 87 i've got is a 87-nothing, not an 87-V. bought it new in about 1990.
i've had to pull out the display twice and clean the contacts with a pencil eraser.

everything i've got by fluke except the 345 is a discontinued product. i just bought
a scopemeter 199C that's discontinued. bought it on ebay a couple days ago. i
asked junkman what he thought it might be worth, and he called the cap on it at $500
for what it'd be worth to him. i'd already looked at used ones, and put a bid in capped
at $900, before i heard back from him. i'm ok at the $850 i paid for it, as it looks
pretty much unused. i had two scopemeters in 2003, and lost both in a robbery, and
decided i wanted one back. end of the year tax purchase.

a new one? a 190-504, their flagship? $5,800. no way in hell. but fluke has made good
stuff in the past. try and find a fluke 12 pristine on ebay.... $150 or better. they were $90
brand new back when. i've got a NOS one buried for the day i kill the one i use daily.

i've got a discontinued fluke 3 phase power logger. paid $1k used. money well spent,
even tho it's pretty primitive. the latest and greatest? fluke 1760TR.... $27,000. no typo.

no sale, either.

 

[JFletcher]

Just my opinion as a 40+ year power company electrician. If you want to spend the extra money, Fluke would be my choice. You might save a few bucks up front buying a cheaper one, but it may also save your life if you don't....

My story... (PPE was never considered back then). I was sent to test two transformers for voltage due to a high bill complaint. Side by side enclosures. One was 480/277 and one was 4160/2400 secondary. Primary was 12,470/7200 Wye. For no reason except rectal/cranial inversion, I used a Fluke 8024A to test voltages line to ground and line to line. I did the 480 one first, then went to the one next to it and put the meter on line to ground (2400). Meter read zero, but I saw a small spark on the test lead. I ALMOST went line to line (4160) but God had me stop and think first. That's when I realized what I'd done. All it did was blow the fuse in the Fluke. Most other meters would have exploded on the spot. Fluke for me.....

You're lucky to be alive. There is an industrial accident safety incident/training/memorial video on youtube where a young electrician was investigating a loss of power. He used a 600V rated meter and tested across the line on the fuses in a motor starter MCC - 2300V. When he made the circuit, the meter exploded in his face, the arc flash having jumped the internal circuitry and insulation. The resulting blast set him on fire, which resulted in his death the next day, and it also destroyed the MCC.

Here's the 15 minute long video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfnEuRA7-vo

 

[Frank DuVal]

Home/Hobby/Automotive use, I do use those Harbor Freight meters. But, measure nothing over 120 to ground.

I do have older Flukes and a Beckman (that's going back!).

 

[petersonra]

I have a Centech somewhere. It works OK.

I also have an Ideal that I got from an Ideal factory a while back. They were pleased that I fixed their machine so gave me an Ideal MM from the company store. It is a clamp on ammeter and voltmeter. Pretty handy.

Harbor Freight has come out with a new line of what looks to be some pretty serious meters. They are branding them as Ames. Oddly they don't seem to be on the web site but I have seen them in the last two monthly flyers. Really decent looking.

I have always thought their hand tools were quite adequate for most people for common household tasks and very cost effective.

I have always been sort of suspicious of their power tools until recently. Some of their newer stuff just looks like it is better built. Even the battery powered stuff. Maybe especially the battery powered stuff.

People who have them rave about the generators they sell.

I have several of their electronic safes. Not real safes, more like heavy duty security cabinets but a definite step up above the lowest end security cabinet.

 

[meternerd]

One other comment (if I may)....If, when using ANY meter, you happen to blow a fuse, DO NOT just grab a fuse off the truck that happens to fit. DMM rated fuses are a whole different animal. Make sure you use one the manufacturer recommends (Yes, Fluke sells fuses, too). And remember...experience is usually just a mistake you lived through.

 

[JFletcher]

it's called cashing out the equity in a brand name, milking it for all it's worth.
fluke has been doing it for 15 years now.

i'm done buying new fluke stuff. however, the older stuff was what the reputation
was built on. and, buying used stuff doesn't give fluke a dime. so......

the fluke 87 i've got is a 87-nothing, not an 87-V. bought it new in about 1990.
i've had to pull out the display twice and clean the contacts with a pencil eraser.

everything i've got by fluke except the 345 is a discontinued product. i just bought
a scopemeter 199C that's discontinued. bought it on ebay a couple days ago. i
asked junkman what he thought it might be worth, and he called the cap on it at $500
for what it'd be worth to him. i'd already looked at used ones, and put a bid in capped
at $900, before i heard back from him. i'm ok at the $850 i paid for it, as it looks
pretty much unused. i had two scopemeters in 2003, and lost both in a robbery, and
decided i wanted one back. end of the year tax purchase.

a new one? a 190-504, their flagship? $5,800. no way in hell. but fluke has made good
stuff in the past. try and find a fluke 12 pristine on ebay.... $150 or better. they were $90
brand new back when. i've got a NOS one buried for the day i kill the one i use daily.

i've got a discontinued fluke 3 phase power logger. paid $1k used. money well spent,
even tho it's pretty primitive. the latest and greatest? fluke 1760TR.... $27,000. no typo.

no sale, either.

Back in 2008, we were going to start offering complete certifications on our v/d/v installs, which arent typically done on hotels - at the time, if there was good picture, clear signal, or internet, it worked - no one cared how well. Anyway, we started looking at meters. Came across the Fluke DTX 1800... iirc, could certify cat6a, tested for AXT, and was the top of the line. iirc, it also was a $10k meter, with SM and MM fiber modules bringing the price up to around $30,000. You can get em on ebay now for 4k or less practically NIB, but their newest one, well, sit down before you read the price:

https://www.amazon.com/Fluke-Networks-DTX-1800-Cable-Analyzer/dp/B00ATQWN5A

I used a Wavetek - Lantek Pro XL, with rebuilt batteries and a hard flight case that I bought for $400. Only certifies to cat5 (not cat5e) standard but is a great checker and fault finder.

Pro-tip: when the near 30 year old Ni-Cad batteries die, dont buy near 30 year old NOS Wavetek batteries for $265 each - take a razor blade and slice the case open, get 7 Li AA batteries and a 8x1 flat battery pack holder, solder a jumper across the 8th slot, solder wires onto tabs on case, use double sided tape and superglue the whole thing back together. Sure, you could get Batteries Plus to solder the whole pack at $100+ each, or you can buy hi-cap AA batteries and assemble it yourself. The remfg packs weigh half of what a new one does since there are 7 batteries vs 8, AA vs 5/4 size, and Li vs Ni Cad.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Back in 2008, we were going to start offering complete certifications on our v/d/v installs, which arent typically done on hotels - at the time, if there was good picture, clear signal, or internet, it worked - no one cared how well. Anyway, we started looking at meters. Came across the Fluke DTX 1800... iirc, could certify cat6a, tested for AXT, and was the top of the line. iirc, it also was a $10k meter, with SM and MM fiber modules bringing the price up to around $30,000. You can get em on ebay now for 4k or less practically NIB, but their newest one, well, sit down before you read the price:

https://www.amazon.com/Fluke-Networks-DTX-1800-Cable-Analyzer/dp/B00ATQWN5A

i didn't even flinch. this isn't my first horsefluking.

hey. it includes a year of gold support.
and that includes a counselor to give you three therapy sessions to find out if it's a deep
sense of inadequacy that made you buy it, or if you are just stupid.

on a positive note, my obsolete little fluke 1735 with tired batteries ran for another 15 minutes
today, and i was able to certify a 4 story building's lighting. and fluke didn't make a dime off it.


:lol:

 

[gadfly56]

i didn't even flinch. this isn't my first horsefluking.

hey. it includes a year of gold support.
and that includes a counselor to give you three therapy sessions to find out if it's a deep
sense of inadequacy that made you buy it, or if you are just stupid.

on a positive note, my obsolete little fluke 1735 with tired batteries ran for another 15 minutes
today, and i was able to certify a 4 story building's lighting. and fluke didn't make a dime off it.


:lol:

Wow, I don't want to know how you get used to prices like that. For that money, it better come with 4 bedrooms and 2 full baths, 'cause that's a down payment.

What kind of crazy prices do you have to charge to make that a reasonable investment?

 

[meternerd]

You're lucky to be alive. There is an industrial accident safety incident/training/memorial video on youtube where a young electrician was investigating a loss of power. He used a 600V rated meter and tested across the line on the fuses in a motor starter MCC - 2300V. When he made the circuit, the meter exploded in his face, the arc flash having jumped the internal circuitry and insulation. The resulting blast set him on fire, which resulted in his death the next day, and it also destroyed the MCC.

Here's the 15 minute long video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfnEuRA7-vo

You got that right....a fault on the line side of any service disconnect breaker means that only the primary fuses will clear the fault. There would have been nothing to put in my casket. But.....I never even came close to making that mistake again and neither did anybody I was working with. Nobody likes making mistakes, but if we can learn from 'em, we can go home at the end of the day with all of our body parts. I know stories can drag us away from the OP subject, but if I hear about someone else's mistakes, maybe I won't have to learn the lesson the hard way. I've got lots of stories about cheap test equipment, but you get the idea.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Wow, I don't want to know how you get used to prices like that. For that money, it better come with 4 bedrooms and 2 full baths, 'cause that's a down payment.

What kind of crazy prices do you have to charge to make that a reasonable investment?

first, this here is da net..... let's desensitize you to absurd...... off thread, but still......

for those of us who would like a quad for scooting around in the hills.....
how far over the hedge can we go? quite a bit...... this is to help you
realize that a $20,000 go cart is a reasonable choice.......
and given the weather hitting lots of us, it's a pretty useful thing.....

https://youtu.be/H4ibhUBW-Lc

 

[JFletcher]

Wow, I don't want to know how you get used to prices like that. For that money, it better come with 4 bedrooms and 2 full baths, 'cause that's a down payment.

What kind of crazy prices do you have to charge to make that a reasonable investment?

That Fluke DTX 1800 w/o the fiber modules was $10k 10 years ago. Obviously, we needed to make $10k profit just to break even. I want to say we quoted the first job, a 44 room addition w/4 drops/room, along with some IP cameras and WAPs bringing the # of cables to just around 200, at around $2,000. The owner balked. We didn't buy the meter, nor did we have any future owners ever want certification. I didnt think $10 a drop was expensive, I figured it would take 2 guys 8-10 hours to do the work, and 4-7 jobs (new construction hotel certification) to pay off the meter.

 

[FionaZuppa]

https://youtu.be/H4ibhUBW-Lc

toys are expensive, from the walfart barbie to a track vehicle. pricing is proportionate to size/complexity & "cool" factor, but in general all still over priced. the barbie probably costs $1 to make and to get it from China to US Walfart shelf, but selling for $14.98 !!

in biz land, the bells & whistles need to be evaluated for proper ROI. buy what you need, not what's nice to have,,,, unless you win the $400M+ lotto, then of course just buy whatever the heck you want.

 

[gadfly56]

That Fluke DTX 1800 w/o the fiber modules was $10k 10 years ago. Obviously, we needed to make $10k profit just to break even. I want to say we quoted the first job, a 44 room addition w/4 drops/room, along with some IP cameras and WAPs bringing the # of cables to just around 200, at around $2,000. The owner balked. We didn't buy the meter, nor did we have any future owners ever want certification. I didnt think $10 a drop was expensive, I figured it would take 2 guys 8-10 hours to do the work, and 4-7 jobs (new construction hotel certification) to pay off the meter.

OK, I get your numbers, but the toy Fulthrotl pointed to was 4X the one you discussed. I suppose in the grand scheme of things, $40/drop is not a wild number, but including your labor would bump that up to $50/drop if you have 20 man-hours at $100/hr; total of $8,000 for capital recovery and $2,000 for labor. I guess it depends on what ROI is acceptable to you.

Assuming you could actually sell this testing, do you have 4-7 jobs a year that might be opportunities to sell it?

 

[JFletcher]

OK, I get your numbers, but the toy Fulthrotl pointed to was 4X the one you discussed. I suppose in the grand scheme of things, $40/drop is not a wild number, but including your labor would bump that up to $50/drop if you have 20 man-hours at $100/hr; total of $8,000 for capital recovery and $2,000 for labor. I guess it depends on what ROI is acceptable to you.

Assuming you could actually sell this testing, do you have 4-7 jobs a year that might be opportunities to sell it?

No. We thought there would be, with owners wanting cat6 over cat5e, but they werent willing to pay more for certification. Our labor rate was significantly lower than your figure a decade ago in this area.

NOT buying that DTX 1800 was one of the best things I ever did.

Drop prices for v/d/v can vary wildly. free run wire in a new con wood framed building being the cheapest, and retrofitting an occupied concrete building after the fact and using a ton of wiremold being the most expensive.

 

[gadfly56]

No. We thought there would be, with owners wanting cat6 over cat5e, but they werent willing to pay more for certification. Our labor rate was significantly lower than your figure a decade ago in this area.

NOT buying that DTX 1800 was one of the best things I ever did.

Drop prices for v/d/v can vary wildly. free run wire in a new con wood framed building being the cheapest, and retrofitting an occupied concrete building after the fact and using a ton of wiremold being the most expensive.

You best opportunity would be looking into government projects. The engineers at various alphabet authorities love to add all the bells and whistles to the installation and testing specifications. Having had to review a number of them, I very much doubt said authors have ever seen a reel of CAT[anything] outside of Home Depot or Lowes.

 

[FionaZuppa]

replacing my Sperry DM-350A with an Innova 3320.
both are UL listed
i looked at probably 100 various makes/models including some good names at 10-15x the price of Innova.
i had three on my short list, Innova, Extech, Fluke
i however did not compare say Innova to Mastech (aka Sinometer), but for its intended use, didnt really need to.
in the end, it was this 3320 ~$25 unit that i bought, a general toss-around meter that works ok, and if breaks or stops working it can easily be tossed into the trash. if it does go south i would probably get the Extech EX350(non nist) next.

 

[FionaZuppa]

quik tests

benchtop power supply "5vdc"
a "1500" ohm resistor

we should expect DMM's to follow E/IR rules

innova measured 5.03v
sperry measured 5.03v

innova measured 1497 ohms
sperry mesured 1489 ohms

expected mA readings (E/R):
innova 3.3600
sperry 3.3781

measured mA
innova 3.38
sperry 3.33

diff between measured and expected
innova +0.02xx mA
sperry -0.04xx mA

diff between two meters 0.06xx mA (almost 1mA)

it appears both DMM's do not measure in tune with E/IR
innova was a smidge more accurate

note, both DMM's have mA setting, the innova also has a separate 10A setting and jack.

i'll need to run same test on my Fluke meter.

another note, innova is a auto ranging unit, thus full reading is 1-2+ sec lag as the auto ranging steps up from low to high scaling. the sperry unit is manual range setting and appears to be instantaneous reading vs the innova.

 

[junkhound]

Bidding on another scope, please don't outbid me :roll:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tektronix-...%3A1fddadfc1610a860e7a69f86ffd75b99%7Ciid%3A1

 

[gadfly56]

Bidding on another scope, please don't outbid me :roll:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tektronix-...%3A1fddadfc1610a860e7a69f86ffd75b99%7Ciid%3A1

A one nano-second time base? Is that for real?

I've already got the 3-1/2" disks to feed it...