Your opinion on this instal....

[Mr.Sparkle]

Simple question. Customer wants to add (4) quad receptacle locations (total of 16 receptacles) for cubicle partitions to serve computers/printers/basic office stuff at front of warehouse, as well as a circuit for a 1/3 HP single phase motor /workbench area. Customer needs job done yesterday blah blah blah.......

My initial price will include running 3/4" emt (@150ft. total) with three circuits, one for the motor/workbench (@50 ft from panel) and two for front of building (@ 100ft. from panel).Now for another option, Would you feel comfortable putting all four quads for the cubicles on one 20A circuit? Then I can just do it in 1/2" (not that I like to) and omit a bolt on breaker etc...... I am just trying to offer a value engineered option as well if he cries about the first price I give him.

Thanks

 

[growler]

Would you feel comfortable putting all four quads for the cubicles on one 20A circuit?

Sure but I would point out the fact that the very minute that they start to use space heaters ( quite common) that the breaker is going to trip.

Recommend what they need and sell them what they are willing to pay for.

 

[Buck Parrish]

13 outlets is the maximum limit to a circuit. You could install two circuits and still use 1/2 ".
But that is not much of a price saver. If people never complain about your prices. Then you may not be charging enough.:smile:

 

[prh1700]

I wouldn't change a thing, especially the 3/4" emt. I have had to go back and add additional circuits to installs like that once the coffee pot and microwave got added, so with the 3/4" you will be set for the call back! If he balks at the price, tell him one circuit is cutting it closer than you like for the install.

 

[charlie b]

13 outlets is the maximum limit to a circuit.

That has been the subject of many extracted debates on this forum, as well (I am sure) as other places. I, for one, do not agree. So I wouldn't suggest making such an assertion, unless you have already read through the history of the debates herein, and are ready and willing to open them up again.

 

[charlie b]

Would you feel comfortable putting all four quads for the cubicles on one 20A circuit?

I would not. But I would call that a "design decision," for I believe that the code would not forbid it. I would not even mention it to the client as being a possible option. They won't be happy with the results, as someone has already pointed out.

 

[Rewire]

If you want to keep the customer dont short change the installation.If you dont put in enough circuits and two months later they are tripping breakers you are not going to be on their favorite electrician list.

 

[Karl H]

Sure but I would point out the fact that the very minute that they start to use space heaters ( quite common) that the breaker is going to trip.

Recommend what they need and sell them what they are willing to pay for.

That was my first thought "Space Heaters".Before you can even
recieve or cash the check someone is going to plug in a
space heater and trip the breaker.Since most office personel
lack the understanding of Ohms Law, will never figure out
a 1500w space heater is 12.5 amps, and the quality of the install
is'nt the issue. Guess who they will blame? Modular Furniture
supplied from one 20 amp circuit is poor design IMO.

 

[quogueelectric]

Simple question. Customer wants to add (4) quad receptacle locations (total of 16 receptacles) for cubicle partitions to serve computers/printers/basic office stuff at front of warehouse, as well as a circuit for a 1/3 HP single phase motor /workbench area. Customer needs job done yesterday blah blah blah.......

My initial price will include running 3/4" emt (@150ft. total) with three circuits, one for the motor/workbench (@50 ft from panel) and two for front of building (@ 100ft. from panel).Now for another option, Would you feel comfortable putting all four quads for the cubicles on one 20A circuit? Then I can just do it in 1/2" (not that I like to) and omit a bolt on breaker etc...... I am just trying to offer a value engineered option as well if he cries about the first price I give him.

Thanks

Just to clarify do you mean 4 quads as in 8-duplex receptacles with 16 places to plug in ? Or 16-duplex receptacles?? 32 places to plug in?

 

[sparkygriffin]

Breaker $30.00
100' wire $ 6.00
difference in 1/2 & 3/4 emt $ 10.00
-------------
$ 46.00
Yeah that should make all of the difference

 

[growler]

Modular Furniture
supplied from one 20 amp circuit is poor design IMO.

I agree but I have hooked it up and had no problems. I may recommend and additional circuit for some installations but if the plans calls for one circuit and they are not willing to pay the extra cost, they are not getting it for free. Lets the breakers trip. Someone will get paid to add that extra circuit if needed.

It's the same with this job, I would recommend two circuits but if the owner tells me that Joe Blow Electric will run one circuit for a couple of hundred less and he is convinced that it will be plenty then I'll give him what he wants. Provided that this is only 8 yokes this is a legal install.

 

[growler]

Breaker $30.00
100' wire $ 6.00
difference in 1/2 & 3/4 emt $ 10.00
-------------
$ 46.00
Yeah that should make all of the difference

Is that really how you calculate the cost of an extra circuit? :-?

 

[macmikeman]

Breaker $30.00
100' wire $ 6.00
difference in 1/2 & 3/4 emt $ 10.00
-------------
$ 46.00
Yeah that should make all of the difference

I'm probably gonna get it for this, but I can whip out 100' of 1/2" faster than I can a similar run of 3/4" emt. And I can run a 100' of 3/4" faster than I can a similar run of 1" emt. And so forth all the way up. And as 480 points out there is more wire, another breaker, more connections, so -
((labor)+ (material)+(overhead)+(markup)+(applicable taxes)+(profit))= sell price. Oh yeah, I almost forgot- contingency.

 

[Karl H]

I agree but I have hooked it up and had no problems. I may recommend and additional circuit for some installations but if the plans calls for one circuit and they are not willing to pay the extra cost, they are not getting it for free. Lets the breakers trip. Someone will get paid to add that extra circuit if needed.

It's the same with this job, I would recommend two circuits but if the owner tells me that Joe Blow Electric will run one circuit for a couple of hundred less and he is convinced that it will be plenty then I'll give him what he wants. Provided that this is only 8 yokes this is a legal install.

I agree with you too. If that's what they paid for and it's not a
Safety hazzard I'll do whatever you want. In most cases Modular
Furniture is nothing but convenience outlets. The true load is'nt
known. My "experience" tells me there will be one computer,one monitor,
one or two lamps or light fixtures per cube.I also might add
one space heater that will trip all of the cubes on that single circuit eventually.
That's not reality because there may or not be any items that I mentioned
above. It may be 9 cubes with file cabs and one comp.So until
the load is known its all convenience outlets. I'm just saying
from "My Experience"one circuit to modular furniture is IMO
poor design.

 

[sparkygriffin]

This sounds like a job where the electrician is figuring what the required amount of circuits are. It didn't sound to me like the owner was asking for something specific. The op said what was going in each cubical, and he could add that up and figure out what he is suppose to have there as far as circuits go, add a little in there for expansion and go for it. My point was he still had to run the pipe regardless of the amount of circuits he put in it, the labor would not change that much just a little material. The effort that was put into thinking about 1 or 2 circuits and posting his question would equal the extra effort he would put into just pulling the extra 1 or even 2 circuits . Plus he may not trip a breaker and get a customer for more than one job

 

[tonyou812]

One circut! thats soooo minimal.....one space heater and your almost maxed out. And you know thats gonna happen quite frequently. And how can you tell someone not to use one. In the end they (the customer) will equate it to "crappy electric" by that crappy electrician. the guy above me said it best. You want this guy for more than one job, dont you?

 

[Mr.Sparkle]

Thanks for the replies guys. I was just looking for opinions on my value engineered option in regards to using the 1/2" and omitting a circuit, it is in no way what I want to do and the price I give him will be the one including 3/4" emt and 3 circuits total.

The only reason I even was looking to offer a value engineered price for this job for him was the fact that he thought I "could just come off the bathroom circuit 10 feet away" or "how about that box on the wall up there?" (277V, I told him his computers would run reeaaal fast:grin:) His face hit the floor when I told him I will need to run @ 150ft. of pipe . The quads are because he does not want to use power strips, and to clarify it will be 8 duplex receptacles in four quads up front and 2 duplex in one quad by the workbench.

I am throwing my 1/2" emt/2 circuit option out the window and gonna stick to my guns with what I feel should be installed, I know he is gonna hem and haw but if he doesn't like it I'll walk. I am not about to drop my price, I am new to the EC side of the game and not fully confident in pricing light commercial just yet anyhow. I, however am attempting to raise the bar and refuse to work for a paycheck.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Sure but I would point out the fact that the very minute that they start to use space heaters ( quite common) that the breaker is going to trip.

Recommend what they need and sell them what they are willing to pay for.

That's funny, I had about the same install, only had space for one circuit, asked if he still wanted what he asked for, he said yes, a week later I'm back there unplugging the four space heaters and the one fish tank that kept overloading the circuit.

 

[Mr.Sparkle]

here is a cute drawing of what I wanna do.

 

[Karl H]

If the Modular Furniture is against a wall I cut-in a box and
whip out to the nearest termination point.If it is in the center of the office
space I use power poles. I love it when Managers or owners
think that Commercial electrical systems are the same as resi systems.
I do'nt know about the rest of you guys,but, I don't have
100 computers,chillers,10 AHU,or 277 volt lighting in my house.
Give me time and that may change.