YouTube vid on troubleshooting AFCI issues.

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sw_ross

Senior Member
Location
NoDak
This YouTube video is interesting! Electrician goes through his troubleshooting technique for AFCI breakers/circuits!

I'd be interested in hearing feedback about this technique!? Especially as we have to deal with more issues with AFCI circuits as they're more required!!

https://youtu.be/61L6WEo3dp8
 

sw_ross

Senior Member
Location
NoDak
Yeah, it definitely has some self-promotion...
I was more focused on his technique for troubleshooting, and figuring out that 2 circuits have neutrals that are crossed over! He was able to determine that by playing around with the circuits at the panel only, and then isolating which two circuits have crossed over neutrals. So then he only has to tear apart two circuits in the house to figure out where the neutrals are crossed over!
 

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
He doesn't get this simply fact: New GE AFCIs do not have GFP.

And yahhh, when he swaps then one could easily be getting hit with over 120.
 

mopowr steve

Senior Member
Location
NW Ohio
Occupation
Electrical contractor
He doesn't get this simply fact: New GE AFCIs do not have GFP.

Yep,

And once he saw that the hot wire was backed fed from the other breaker, should of went on the hunt for where they got accidentally tied together in bedroom.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Yep,

And once he saw that the hot wire was backed fed from the other breaker, should of went on the hunt for where they got accidentally tied together in bedroom.

Bingo!!

Neutral's got nothing to do with his symptoms.

Once he tripped the other circuit, in the lower left side of the panel, all he needed was a voltmeter to see that, with that breaker tripped he could energize the conductor tied to it by turning the affected AFCI circuit on and off.

Instead he spun his wheels and I got dizzy off his "logic".
 

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
Yep,

And once he saw that the hot wire was backed fed from the other breaker, should of went on the hunt for where they got accidentally tied together in bedroom.

Which he could have done by turning off all the circuits, except the tripping one, put that on a normal breaker temporarily, and then testing each breaker with his bulb line to ground to see if lights up. The one that does indicates the hots tied together from different circuits.


The part that gets me is testing with each breaker on. That won't do anything. The impedance of each bus bar is way lower than that of each circuit effectively shunting each circuit out.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
The part that gets me is testing with each breaker on. That won't do anything. The impedance of each bus bar is way lower than that of each circuit effectively shunting each circuit out.
The shiny object that is drawing all the attention is the tripping AFCI breaker. He starts off with the one AFCI not tripping upon test. . .installs another and it does not trip upon test when the branch circuit is connected, but it does test without branch circuit conductors connected to the AFCI.

Then he gets an arc weld arc when banging the disconnected branch circuit hot to the disconnected branch circuit neutral. A simple line to neutral solid short. That's it, right there.

The disconnected branch circuit, that is supposed to only be fed by the AFCI breaker, is still hot, energized by a connection to another branch circuit all together.

So, whether AFCI or standard breaker, both are going to try to energize a bolted short across L1 to L2 and blow with high fault current; or nothing will happen if they are connected L1 to L1, or L2 to L2. (But of course, the AFCI sensing circuitry will be backfed.) But this is Overcurrent protection operation. AFCI has no part in the underlying error.

So here, with the discovery that the disconnected branch circuit is still hot, MBrooke, connect the light between the disconnected hot and neutral (bulb lights up) and go down the circuit breakers turning them off, then back on, one at a time until the light goes off then on.

Then go inside, armed with the label info and hunt for the bad splice in a junction box on the two circuits.
 
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sw_ross

Senior Member
Location
NoDak
You're right it has nothing to do with the neutrals... Or even an arc fault breaker situation...

What I'm trying to understand is that it's a 10 year old house and apparently things have worked fine up to this point - what changed now to cause it to trip and the HO to call an electrician?!
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Didn't he say the initial trouble was that the AFCI wouldn't test? Not trip, but just test? (Apologies, I'm balking at playing it again).
Tapatalk
 

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
I need to watch the vid again, but he mentioned frying the new breaker. I think at minimum we are seeing interconnected hots, but I tempted to say more is going on. I am tired and sleepy atm, but I will watch this video I few more times so I can make sure I understand whats going on.


I think we are all balking at first glance, but there might be more going on than meets the eye.
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
I suppose he was going for the "dramatic" effect shorting the wires together. Would have been much better & simpler to use either his test light or meter to show the wire was hot and back fed.

Side note: Thought it was funny at the end when you hear something fall and break. Pretty sure it was the light bulb from the pigtail tester!:)
 
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