Trying in saving here the money I though that I can install the 90 amps breaker in the outside pedestal, see photo, and bring the furnace feeders from there bypassing the inside panel. The meter has a disconnect to that pedestal and btw I am going to remove those 20 amps breakers ... what is your input in this?
Zinsco breaker
- Thread starter Esthy
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kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
might save on materials, but sounds like something that could take a lot of labor for no more then you are accomplishing, need more details on things but sounds like you would then have art 225.30 violations - more then one feeder to a building or structure. I'd rather see you tap the main feeder and put in a new 2 space panel or fused disconnect for the furnace - not exactly right thing either but maybe a better compromise, you did not gain any additional "main disconnects" then you started with anyway. Although you still may have about as much labor and enough into tap components that you may still be about as well just putting in a new panel. Maybe one of those Eaton panels that are designed to retrofit old panels? Never used one not sure how well they work out.
Thanks kwired, can I accomodate 225.30 (A) (6) for this? Please note the photo, there are two 20 amps breakers for some "outside" receptacles and lighting that I will remove, and maybe not legally if I cannot use the 225.30 (A) (6) but it will be safer. The outside disconnect is almost close to the inside service panel, so I can use the same conductors, pulling them from the panel and attaching to the 90 outside running a very short raceway. Also, I will install the 2 rods to this disconnect.
OR, maybe, please see the panel photo, I can reposition the 2 DP (water heater and dryer) in the 60 amps (split) lighting and use that space for the 90 and because it is a small MH the 60 can manage the load or maybe, because the water heater is "outside" - still part of the structure - I can locate the breaker/load in the outside disconnect and that will reduce the load on the 60.
Will any of the above feasible or I need to drop the towel here.
OR, maybe, please see the panel photo, I can reposition the 2 DP (water heater and dryer) in the 60 amps (split) lighting and use that space for the 90 and because it is a small MH the 60 can manage the load or maybe, because the water heater is "outside" - still part of the structure - I can locate the breaker/load in the outside disconnect and that will reduce the load on the 60.
Will any of the above feasible or I need to drop the towel here.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
I don't see how 225.30(A)(6) would apply to this situation - it says "multiple sources" in that section and you still only have one source - the utility company.
Also remember you said in OP this is a mobile home so we need to comply with art 550 with whatever we do.
550.10 requires the mobile home to be supplied with a single feeder. The pedestal outside contains the feeder overcurrent device that supplies the home, other breakers in that pedestal are for accessory buildings or structures.
I'm guessing the split bus panel was legal in it's day, but 2014 NEC would require a single disconnecting means near the entry of the supply feeder (main breaker panel is most typical way this is accomplished).
Also remember you said in OP this is a mobile home so we need to comply with art 550 with whatever we do.
550.10 requires the mobile home to be supplied with a single feeder. The pedestal outside contains the feeder overcurrent device that supplies the home, other breakers in that pedestal are for accessory buildings or structures.
I'm guessing the split bus panel was legal in it's day, but 2014 NEC would require a single disconnecting means near the entry of the supply feeder (main breaker panel is most typical way this is accomplished).
Thanks again kwired,
I am so proud to belong here. You are a value assets to this forum as many others, and your knowledge of the code and your promptness in helping is significance.
I am sure Mike Holt is proud of having you on board.
My apologies for my English idiomatic expressions, but you know English is not my native language.
I am so proud to belong here. You are a value assets to this forum as many others, and your knowledge of the code and your promptness in helping is significance.
I am sure Mike Holt is proud of having you on board.
My apologies for my English idiomatic expressions, but you know English is not my native language.
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
I agree that you should consider this, BUT, do the calculation. . . get the name plate loads of the Dryer and Water Heater in kW or Amps and do the calculation to see if it will fit in the 14.4 kW that the 60 Amp spit bus subfeed breaker will allow. I think you have to do this, or, at least go write down the dimensions of the trailer and the Dryer and Water Heater name plate information and bring it here. As it stands, you have a calculation to do to see if this is a workable solution.
Thanks al hildenbrand, you know, maybe I am getting too old for those mobile homes, but I still thinking why not a second feeder from the disconnect? kwired is correct about a violation of 225.30, but what is "the real danger" installing a second feeder in "this situation" using proper nameplates, stickers, etc.? Using kwired method of tapping the main feeder ... is a better compromise, but in this situation, as he said, it will cost more than a new panel.
This is a replay from kwired to another post regarding Mobile Homes:
?Mobile homes have killed unsuspecting plumbers, electricians, owners, etc. that have crawled under them and because of improper service/feeder/bonding/grounding issues they get electrocuted between the metal frame and the earth (which they have much more connectivity to when lying down then when standing on two feet. There are reasons the rules are the way they are for mobile homes. I don't care to make changes to those rules - it can kill someone and then the low income issue seems not so big anymore?
So, it makes a lot of sense and I replied with:
The last replay from kwired wake me up from my nightmare. The rules are the rules and I must follow them, so I will find the way to get the funds to do the right thing about those Mobile Homes following NEC rules and if the situation there is too dangerous then notify the appropriated authorities, it is a big true, cutting corners must be avoided as it will end in killing someone. Thank!
?Mobile homes have killed unsuspecting plumbers, electricians, owners, etc. that have crawled under them and because of improper service/feeder/bonding/grounding issues they get electrocuted between the metal frame and the earth (which they have much more connectivity to when lying down then when standing on two feet. There are reasons the rules are the way they are for mobile homes. I don't care to make changes to those rules - it can kill someone and then the low income issue seems not so big anymore?
So, it makes a lot of sense and I replied with:
The last replay from kwired wake me up from my nightmare. The rules are the rules and I must follow them, so I will find the way to get the funds to do the right thing about those Mobile Homes following NEC rules and if the situation there is too dangerous then notify the appropriated authorities, it is a big true, cutting corners must be avoided as it will end in killing someone. Thank!
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