zip cord for permanent fixture

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flatlander said:
Is there a code that prohibits using zip cord for permanent wire of a fixture.
For example a track fixture end feed to a receptacle outlet.
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I have seen a fair number of track light fixtures that are sold with tracks that come with a cord that plugs into a normal outlet. I have one in my den in fact.

It seems unlikely UL would ist such a thing if it was not code legal in some way.
 
Yes I too have seen a pretty manufactured set up. However would a field wired with zip cord or even a 3 wire pendant type cord be acceptable.

Is there is distance limit.

How about stapling or affixing the wire to the wall.
 
The rules for flexible cords and cables and line cords apply. I believe 6 foot limit for line cords. Can't be attached to the wall or ceiling, no raceway or conduit. Doing so would make it a fixed wiring system. See Art 400.

-Hal
 
flatlander said:
Yes I too have seen a pretty manufactured set up. However would a field wired with zip cord or even a 3 wire pendant type cord be acceptable.

If otherwise allowed and connected to a device listed for such purposes I see no prohibition

Is there is distance limit.

there might be one in the UL listing for the device. I don't think there is one in the NEC.

How about stapling or affixing the wire to the wall.
Take a look at 400.8(4) and see what you think. It seems pretty clear.
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At first glance it appears it is hard to get past 400.8(4) in any practical sense since no one is going to want to have a cord just hanging in air. However, it appears to me that the prohibition in 400.8(4) applies only if the cord is actually fixed to the building surface. If one were to install a board to the surface and attach the cord to the board it would appear not to be a violation. or if someone where to just run a horizontal board and lay the cord on the board without affixing it at all. Or if someone were to put some hooks on the surface and run the cord thru the hooks, that might satisfy the requirements.

having said all that, why bother? if it is a new install hook it up in whatever way is safe and code compliant. if it is a HO DIY they can do what they want. It might not be code compliant depending on how it was done, but it probably won't be unsafe.
 
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flatlander said:
Thanks,
Just looking for some help as to where not allowed by code so I can show clients who don't want to fish or run conduut.
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In suggesting to the client, your safest bet is to recommend the manufactured track live-end feed that is factory assembled with a cord.

If your client makes a cord set for a live-end feed, that's on them. You've shown them a source that is part of the luminaire, complete, and Code compliant.

cb68553d-62b4-48ba-83bd-828fac54cbea_1000.jpg
 
flatlander said:
Thanks,
Just looking for some help as to where not allowed by code so I can show clients who don't want to fish or run conduut.
Click to expand...

i think you are in one of those gray areas where inspectors tend to claim the code requires doing it the way they want even if maybe it is not quite that way. If you customer does not want to use a chapter 3 wiring method, than the best bet is to buy a pre-made factory assembly intended for that purpose and install it in a way the inspector cannot complain. Otherwise a $25 item will cost you $200 in time.
 
petersonra said:
At first glance it appears it is hard to get past 400.8(4) in any practical sense since no one is going to want to have a cord just hanging in air. However, it appears to me that the prohibition in 400.8(4) applies only if the cord is actually fixed to the building surface. If one were to install a board to the surface and attach the cord to the board it would appear not to be a violation. or if someone where to just run a horizontal board and lay the cord on the board without affixing it at all. Or if someone were to put some hooks on the surface and run the cord thru the hooks, that might satisfy the requirements.
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How would a board affixed to the surface not become part of the building surface? If I understand you correctly, laying the cable on a board affixed to the surface (ceiling?) makes it concealed wiring. Hooks ? Maybe...

al hildenbrand said:
In suggesting to the client, your safest bet is to recommend the manufactured track live-end feed that is factory assembled with a cord.

If your client makes a cord set for a live-end feed, that's on them. You've shown them a source that is part of the luminaire, complete, and Code compliant.
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I'm pretty sure that you can't attach that cord to the wall or ceiling either. That's what I was saying about line cords which that is.

-Hal
 
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petersonra said:
Is this a code violation?
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Dang man that cord has to be longer than 6'. So is the cord in the other picture attached to the track. I was unaware of the 6' line cord rule. From what I have seen there are plenty of instances of equipment having longer than 6' cords. If that's a code violation then the rule itself is kind of dumb. Just my opinion.
 
Aleman said:
Dang man that cord has to be longer than 6'. So is the cord in the other picture attached to the track. I was unaware of the 6' line cord rule. From what I have seen there are plenty of instances of equipment having longer than 6' cords. If that's a code violation then the rule itself is kind of dumb. Just my opinion.
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I doubt there is one as I've assembled many chandeliers that hang from 20' ceilings just 8' off the ground.
 
Aleman said:
Dang man that cord has to be longer than 6'. So is the cord in the other picture attached to the track. I was unaware of the 6' line cord rule. From what I have seen there are plenty of instances of equipment having longer than 6' cords. If that's a code violation then the rule itself is kind of dumb. Just my opinion.
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Why do you think we have the 12 foot rule for receptacle spacing? Matter of fact, residential kitchen countertop appliances can't have a line cord longer than 3 feet. I believe it's a UL or NRTL requirement for residential equipment

JFletcher said:
I doubt there is one as I've assembled many chandeliers that hang from 20' ceilings just 8' off the ground.
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That's not a line cord. It doesn't have a plug on the end.

-Hal
 
hbiss said:
Why do you think we have the 12 foot rule for receptacle spacing? Matter of fact, residential kitchen countertop appliances can't have a line cord longer than 3 feet. I believe it's a UL or NRTL requirement for residential equipment



That's not a line cord. It doesn't have a plug on the end.

-Hal
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Hanging lamps of the "swag" type have zip or cloth covered cord at least 12' in length so that the lamp can hang from a ceiling hook and the chain and cord can reach to a receptacle at baseboard level on a nearby wall.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 
al hildenbrand said:
In suggesting to the client, your safest bet is to recommend the manufactured track live-end feed that is factory assembled with a cord.

If your client makes a cord set for a live-end feed, that's on them. You've shown them a source that is part of the luminaire, complete, and Code compliant.




cb68553d-62b4-48ba-83bd-828fac54cbea_1000.jpg
Click to expand...


The photo shown here has a non grounding cord assembly, the normally metallic track would require grounding IMHO.
 
Aleman said:
Dang man that cord has to be longer than 6'. So is the cord in the other picture attached to the track. I was unaware of the 6' line cord rule. From what I have seen there are plenty of instances of equipment having longer than 6' cords. If that's a code violation then the rule itself is kind of dumb. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

I don't think there is a 6' cord rule in the code.
 
hbiss said:
The rules for flexible cords and cables and line cords apply. I believe 6 foot limit for line cords.
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Can you show a rule that says a six foot cord length limit applies to the track manufacturer that makes a corded live-end feed for the track? The live-end feed with power supply cord is assembled complete in the factory.
 
norcal said:
The photo shown here has a non grounding cord assembly, the normally metallic track would require grounding IMHO.
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Then how do you account for billions of all-metal floor and table lamps that are sold and used with a simple two-wire cord and molded plug? A floor or table lamp is far more accessible to occupants than a ceiling mounted cord and plug supplied track luminaire, and almost always require the end-user to grab the luminaire to find the key or switch to turn it on and off. These factory assembled luminaires are rarely ever grounded.

My point is that the factory assembled cord and plug live-end feed, attached to a track of the same manufacturer, is a manufactured luminaire, not a luminaire that is wired in the field by the installer; and therefor the Article 250 grounding that I would have to do if I, as the installing electrician, assembled it's wiring in the field, does not apply.

And, no, inserting the live-end field into the track rail does not constitute the "wiring" of the luminaire, in my opinion.
 
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