I went to a friends house & she showed me what she wanted done on her property. I saw this work already done supposedly by an electrical contractor in the area. 200A panel w/100A wire (#2 aluminum). She said the electrician told her she only had 100A. This is true but where is the protection now? Am I missing something here? She either needs to switch the main breaker to 100A or upsize her service entrance wire to 4/0 aluminum. What she has now is not even close to being legal as far as I can tell. What do you guys think?
200a service w/100a rated wire
- Thread starter sparkie48
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
I think the wire is probably owned by the poco, and therefore doesn't fall under the NEC. They might have approves the upgrade even with the smaller wire.
sparkie, In reference to George's post, if the cable in question is POCOs, such as the service drop or lateral, then it would be their determination as to its' being sufficient. If the wiring you are speaking of is beyond POCO's point of connection and part of the premises wiring (service entrance is rarely POCOs) then you are correct and the owner either needs a 100 amp main or 200 amp wire.
The situation you describe is to often commonplace here when an install is performed by unlicensed personnel who don't permit and know that if POCO is involved, permitting is required.
The situation you describe is to often commonplace here when an install is performed by unlicensed personnel who don't permit and know that if POCO is involved, permitting is required.
flashlight
Senior Member
- Location
- NY, NY
- Occupation
- Electrician, semi-retired
We just installed a 3ph 150A service. We tapped the POCOs conductors coming from the street, as per instructions from their field engineer. They are #2s, and already supply another 150A service, plus smaller loads.
The POCOs play by different rules.
The POCOs play by different rules.
Cavie
Senior Member
- Location
- SW Florida
They play by different rules because of heat disapation. Thier wires are not confined in an outer covering or installed in conduit, hence a smaller wire will carry the same current as one confined.
Mr.Sparkle
Senior Member
- Location
- Jersey Shore
When I bought my house I noticed that the HO or a handyman swapped out the panel to a 200A Homeline but left the old 100A feeders in place coming from the meter outside, HI didn't even catch it. I left it that way for 3 years until I resided my house because everyone here knows us perfeshunel 'lectrishuns are allowed to get away with that stuff on our own homes'es.
Cold Fusion
Senior Member
- Location
- way north
ALF -
That doesn't compute on this planet. NEC T310.17 is for free air. #2 al is good for 110A. Somehow I don't think that free air #2al under NESC runs cooler than free air #2 al under NEC I310.17.
cf
Cavie
Senior Member
- Location
- SW Florida
I didn't say it was correct. I stated the mindset behind what they do. The POCO's only use for the NEC is to start a fire with it.
flashlight
Senior Member
- Location
- NY, NY
- Occupation
- Electrician, semi-retired
Couldn't find the tables for free water-- a lot of time these underground entrances are four conductors, say #2's, sitting in 4 in pipe with water in it.
Last edited:
- Location
- Massachusetts
It is my understanding that the power companies size the conductors and equipment based on their own expectation of the load. There is likely no group on earth that can predict the load for a given building better then the power company can.
They have 100 plus years of real world data to go on and the NEC has nothing to do with it.
They have 100 plus years of real world data to go on and the NEC has nothing to do with it.
Exactly, how many others besides me have to furnish the POCO a load summary sheet for new services?
Roger
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
We do, too. It's called a Load Letter:
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Dominion is in NC, too.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
They sound like co-ops. Boo, hiss.
flashlight
Senior Member
- Location
- NY, NY
- Occupation
- Electrician, semi-retired
Excuse my ignorance, why are co-ops bad ?
(We mostly deal with Con Edison, which I think is as far from a co-op
as you can get--)
I don't know but niether Duke Energy or Progress Energy are co-ops, and they both serve multiple states.
Roger
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Because I have done two service upgrades in co-op-supplied homes, and for both, getting the power back on the same day was a real chore. You'd think it was a rare request. :roll:
I had to pre-arrange with the inspector to come out early in the day to inspect the outside portion and panel enclosure installation, so he could see the electrode and feeder wiring.
I also had to coordinate with him and the POCO to get the partial approval sent to the right department early enough in the day to arrange for their return trip to re-energize the drop.
Then, I had to get the inspector to agree to come back out the same day to do the final inspection so we could get the meter reset and turn the main and BC breakers back on.
Aapparently it's a two-day affair in most cases. Everyone involved reacted as if wanting the power back on the same day was a real imposition, but the customer was adamant.
flashlight
Senior Member
- Location
- NY, NY
- Occupation
- Electrician, semi-retired
Larry, I see your point...
We are in our second month waiting for Con Edison (an ancient monopoly) to come back for final inspection for a new meter. This is for a commercial space, luckily the meter pan is a bypass type, so we can engage the bypass to jump the meter if it gets too cold. (temp power is not sufficient for their electric heat)
We are in our second month waiting for Con Edison (an ancient monopoly) to come back for final inspection for a new meter. This is for a commercial space, luckily the meter pan is a bypass type, so we can engage the bypass to jump the meter if it gets too cold. (temp power is not sufficient for their electric heat)
- Status