Problems with local inspector

[iwire]

So what is so different between MC and AC that there could not be a chance to the armour shorting out the circuit? :roll:

I don't know, but what does that have to do with an inspector telling a contractor what they would like to see?

If you feel the code is wrong try to get it changed.

 

[cpal]

I personaly will always use reds. I won't/ can't enforce it but I will ask for it and I explain why. Beyond the bonding strip and the full size ground, what is the difference between AC/BX and MC cable?
and
What is the purpose of using an anti short?

AFC started including the bag of anti short bushings when the contaractors requested it. The contractors requsted it because inspectors where mis enforcing their use. the electricans where more than happy to put them in if they did not pay for them or at least have the on the site. Why argue over a small item and AFC was happy to do it because it improved their marketing.

Whats the difference between MC and AC ?

Pleanty

One is suitable for wet locations the other is not. One is tightly packed and the conductors have an increased exposure to abrasion by the armour. MC is loose and the conductors are individually wrapped by mylar which has the gage size on it. One may be direct buried. One is stronger (I think AC) pull tension. There are other little differences. One could make a list most of it is application issues.

I thinks MC allowed larger condutors and can be used as MV, also.

 

[shepelec]

Last I knew ASKING and TELLING were two different things. Especially when it is explained that it is NOT code and I would not flag you for NOT doing it.

 

[iwire]

Last I knew ASKING and TELLING were two different things. Especially when it is explained that it is NOT code and I would not flag you for NOT doing it.

Why is this making you angry?

Should it make you angry?

Consider this. Lets say a cop pulls you over, you ask why. The cop explains that while you where not breaking any laws it is just that he personally feels the speed limit should be lower in that area and he pulled you over to explain that to you. He goes on to tell you he would like it if you drove below the posted speed limit in the future.

Would that be right?

You are in a position of authority, that makes the bar very high and in my personal opinion you should not be pushing your views (and that is what you are doing by bringing it up at all) on contractors no matter how well intentioned your motives are.

 

[roger]

The major differences between MC and AC

Roger

 

[cpal]

Nice link thanks Roger

Also
Bothe AFC and Southwire not list and mfg a MC with it's armour listed as a EGC and contains a internal bonding strip similar to BX (but not quite)

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Why is this making you angry?

Should it make you angry?

Consider this. Lets say a cop pulls you over, you ask why. The cop explains that while you where not breaking any laws it is just that he personally feels the speed limit should be lower in that area and he pulled you over to explain that to you. He goes on to tell you he would like it if you drove below the posted speed limit in the future.

Would that be right?

You are in a position of authority, that makes the bar very high and in my personal opinion you should not be pushing your views (and that is what you are doing by bringing it up at all) on contractors no matter how well intentioned your motives are.

Excellent response. I was trying to come with with a gentle and easy flowing analogy but you got it right there.

By asking you put the EC's in a bind because they want to please you and don't want to make waves. I am sure you don't mean to control the situation but by asking it appears that is what you are doing.

I do use the redheads-- why?-- old habits and I bet most EC's do simply because they don't realize they don't have to.

 

[ike5547]

Last I knew ASKING and TELLING were two different things. Especially when it is explained that it is NOT code and I would not flag you for NOT doing it.

When an inspector starts making suggestions (asking) it's very difficult for an electrician to say no. If the electrician doesn't heed your "suggestion" you may or may not take it personally, but how are they to know?

 

[mtfallsmikey]

Very interesting thread...I've had many exchanges like these with inspectors, more with plumbing than any other trade...things get confusing when the subject is plumbing drainage vents/venting..if the issue that needs to be resolved is not too time-consuming/costly to resolve, I would fix to their liking, and move on. If any inspector is worried about the lack of red-eyes being installed on MC cacble, let me show them what happened here at work last week when 2/277v. lighting circuits on different phases shorted out on the insulated edge of a 3/4" box connector inside of an 11b box....it tripped the 200 amp main 480 breaker for the whole parking garage...

 

[LarryFine]

Last I knew ASKING and TELLING were two different things. Especially when it is explained that it is NOT code and I would not flag you for NOT doing it.

Why even bring it up if you're aware it's not a requirement? Do you "ask" for taping wirenuts, or one cable per connector? Where do you stop?

When an inspector starts making suggestions (asking) it's very difficult for an electrician to say no.

Not me, not one bit.

 

[infinity]

Why even bring it up if you're aware it's not a requirement? Do you "ask" for taping wirenuts, or one cable per connector? Where do you stop?

Not me, not one bit.

I agree on both counts. Next we can hear a suggestion that "the EMT you're using as the EGC would be even better if you were also using a wire type EGC". Where will it end?

 

[LarryFine]

One of my best friends used to construct elevators, and one of his 'favorite' inspectors would often say "I'd like to see . . . ", or "I'd feel better if . . . ", and my friend would respond with "Sure, just sign the change order."

The inspector finally asked what my friend meant by that, and he finally told him that he'd be happy to do whatever the inspector asked for, if he was willing to pay for it. The inspector finally took the hint and stopped.

 

[shepelec]

I guess this goes for a suggestion that would save you money as well.:roll:

I'm not angry, I just dont understand the thought process. It seems more of an "I don't have too and you can't make me" attitude. There are quite a few things that are not in the code book that make alot of sense and make for a better job, such as installing a ground wire in EMT. Personally if you want install to minimum standards thats up to you. I won't do it and I will encourage other guys not to do it. This has nothing to do with being an inspector, most of the contractors I deal with know me personally and are not doing this because I say so, they do it because it makes sense. If you bid a job so tight you can't afford a couple of bags of reds and the 1/4 second it takes to install them then you are already screwed.

I see nothing wrong suggesting an alternate was of doing things as long as it is done in the correct manner after all the book is a minimum standard.

I guess I will agree to disagree.

 

[LarryFine]

There are quite a few things that are not in the code book that make alot of sense and make for a better job, such as installing a ground wire in EMT.

That's fine if the customer is willing to pay for the materials and labor involved in pulling it in.

If they ask my opinion, though, I will honestly say that the wire won't be worth the extra cost.

 

[infinity]

I guess this goes for a suggestion that would save you money as well.:roll:

I'm not angry, I just dont understand the thought process. It seems more of an "I don't have too and you can't make me" attitude. There are quite a few things that are not in the code book that make alot of sense and make for a better job, such as installing a ground wire in EMT. Personally if you want install to minimum standards thats up to you. I won't do it and I will encourage other guys not to do it. This has nothing to do with being an inspector, most of the contractors I deal with know me personally and are not doing this because I say so, they do it because it makes sense. If you bid a job so tight you can't afford a couple of bags of reds and the 1/4 second it takes to install them then you are already screwed.

I see nothing wrong suggesting an alternate was of doing things as long as it is done in the correct manner after all the book is a minimum standard.

I guess I will agree to disagree.

But as an inspector isn't your obligation to inspect per the code and nothing more? Unsolicited comments are not what someone wants to hear when they've installed according to the code, even if their installation is to the code minimum. IMO if they want an inspectors opinion then they should ask for it. Otherwise the whole inspection process could turn into a receptacle ground up or ground down debate.

 

[One-eyed Jack]

There is article 110.2 that some inspectors use as a last and first resort.:grin:

 

[roger]

There is article 110.2 that some inspectors use as a last and first resort.:grin:

And they wouldn't win be it first or last resort. :grin:

Roger

 

[Sierrasparky]

We had an inspector that was pretty thorough but a lot of times he took it to the extremes. He would cite code from the wrong section and apply it eswhere. He would even photo copy the page and say see it says so here. If you were not carefull you would not notice he pulled it from some article or chapter that is not even close to the application. He knew h was doing this.

When things go financially harmful to the contractor those contractors complained. They drove this guy right out of town. The end result is a group of inspectors afraid to make some calls on shoddy work. The result of this is a lot of very poor and dangerous work!

 

[LarryFine]

The end result is a group of inspectors afraid to make some calls on shoddy work. The result of this is a lot of very poor and dangerous work!

So, the pendulum swung the other way. It almost sounds like reverse discrimination.

There should be no animosity even during a disagreement. The contractor and the inspector should be working toward a common goal (as I've said before): a safe and compliant installation that performs well.

Just request a conversation, and don't start an argument. Being right or wrong has no direct relationship on being civil, which depends on the character of each individual involved.

 

[walkerj]

Here's the thing,
In this particular instance there were a bunch of offices wired in mc cable with let's say 100 receptacles.

Five or six of them in the ONE room he happened to inspect did not have them.

We were there, so I got tweedle-dee and dumber to install them while me and the inspector spoke about the problem.

I was civil and they were installed before he left, but he still insisted that he would have to come back the next day and reinspect.

So basically they can enforce any little thing they want with no repercussions at a real cost to us and a real profit to them(reinspection fee)