Estimate is too high on labor?

[nhfire77]

Pulling a total of 45 CAT6 runs. 35 are 200' 10 are 100' lengths are approximate The drops are spread out in a wide pattern. 2 concentrated drops with 5-6 each, but none in the exact same spot

Install a Single main trunk with 40 j hooks then cable ties to structure from there (no, not a certified or EIA spec job)

Building is 175' x 175' there are many interior partitions that are framed, but its not tight.

Open bar joist ceiling 16-18' to the bottom of the bar joist. It is a very active construction site all trades working concurrently,

All the above are guesses based on 3rd party suppositions, you can't see the site before you start.

Assume two men, one lift, 8 hours a day, 8 1000' boxes of cable. Only the lift will remain overnight, all tools and materials must go.

How many days would you plan on?

I said 3 to be safe, thinking it would be 2. I get a note saying its 24 man hours allowed. I guess you could hack it in without hooks and zip tie nothing and still not be done

 

[Rewire]

pulling only with no terminations ?

 

[hbiss]

All the above are guesses based on 3rd party suppositions, you can't see the site before you start... I get a note saying its 24 man hours allowed.

RUN don't walk away from this one.

-Hal

 

[nhfire77]

Yea I know, but it's a good customer. We've been trying to show justification, this is going to be extra work with change orders flying back and forth before we started. Usually our price is accepted as quoted. It's not normally a blind job.

No terminations In that portion.

We've been delineating this work by approximate hours to allow an mutually beneficial contract. We're billing flat rate in half day increment per man. More than reasonable rates for me to work with. They know I won't take a loss on extra work just because I'm already doing the rest of t. I think they went over budget with change orders and need to stop the bleeding.

 

[kwired]

I think they went over budget with change orders and need to stop the bleeding.

I have never understood why this is the contractors problem.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Pulling a total of 45 CAT6 runs. 35 are 200' 10 are 100' lengths are approximate The drops are spread out in a wide pattern. 2 concentrated drops with 5-6 each, but none in the exact same spot

Install a Single main trunk with 40 j hooks then cable ties to structure from there (no, not a certified or EIA spec job)

Building is 175' x 175' there are many interior partitions that are framed, but its not tight.

Open bar joist ceiling 16-18' to the bottom of the bar joist. It is a very active construction site all trades working concurrently,

All the above are guesses based on 3rd party suppositions, you can't see the site before you start.

Assume two men, one lift, 8 hours a day, 8 1000' boxes of cable. Only the lift will remain overnight, all tools and materials must go.

How many days would you plan on?

I said 3 to be safe, thinking it would be 2. I get a note saying its 24 man hours allowed. I guess you could hack it in without hooks and zip tie nothing and still not be done

How do the drops get to the floor. leave them dangling for someone else to deal with?

 

[Fulthrotl]

Pulling a total of 45 CAT6 runs. 35 are 200' 10 are 100' lengths are approximate The drops are spread out in a wide pattern. 2 concentrated drops with 5-6 each, but none in the exact same spot

Install a Single main trunk with 40 j hooks then cable ties to structure from there (no, not a certified or EIA spec job)

Building is 175' x 175' there are many interior partitions that are framed, but its not tight.

Open bar joist ceiling 16-18' to the bottom of the bar joist. It is a very active construction site all trades working concurrently,

All the above are guesses based on 3rd party suppositions, you can't see the site before you start.

Assume two men, one lift, 8 hours a day, 8 1000' boxes of cable. Only the lift will remain overnight, all tools and materials must go.

How many days would you plan on?

I said 3 to be safe, thinking it would be 2. I get a note saying its 24 man hours allowed. I guess you could hack it in without hooks and zip tie nothing and still not be done

i just put in 104 nodes, 4 per drop, using j hooks, but it was a
slam dunk, a rewire on an existing building, with a mezzanine.
16,000' of cat 6, eight hours with a green helper to pull it down
the wall drops. took two hours to demo, then i set up 8 boxes
of wire at a time, and pulled it out long, and hit two drops at a
time.

from what you describe, i'd allow two guys 3 days, 'cause it'll
be three days, with other trades underfoot. my 104 nodes was
literally the perfect quickie. yours isn't.

there were 8 of those nodes whose location wasn't defined, so
i pulled them 280' long, and put a jack on them and certified them.

when i had to snoodle those eight cables into the warehouse, it
took me 6 hours to get them over and around everything.

that's the real world.

as for the rocket scientist who thinks you can do it in 24, that is
ONE 12 hour day for two guys. let HIM saddle up a lift and pull it
all in one day, with a helper, or shut up.

 

[nhfire77]

How do the drops get to the floor. leave them dangling for someone else to deal with?

No: label, Make up a male rj-45 with 40' coil. We'll come back later and add equipment. Hours for that portion also up for debate.

I'm confident it can be done in 2 days, if no one gets in the way or any delays beyond pur control. Since that never happens, 3 days.

 

[Sierrasparky]

No: label, Make up a male rj-45 with 40' coil. We'll come back later and add equipment. Hours for that portion also up for debate.

I'm confident it can be done in 2 days, if no one gets in the way or any delays beyond pur control. Since that never happens, 3 days.

2 days is 32 hours if that is 2 of you!

Are you doing this solo?

 

[nhfire77]

2 days is 32 hours if that is 2 of you!

Are you doing this solo?

No it's assumed 2 men working, and neither will be me. My comment in the last post about 2 days was, if it was perfect working conditions.

We are talking about total man hours alloted. I offered 48 hours total: three 8 hour days, 2 men. Taking into account the conditions listed in the OP.

They think it's half that, and we're adamant that was reasonable. I couldn't understand how. This was the simplist example of all the disagreements we're having on time alloted for specific tasks. My point is, just as fulthrol said, in the real world it takes longer than a ideal situation. If all work was ideal, change orders would be a foreign concept.

 

[kwired]

No it's assumed 2 men working, and neither will be me. My comment in the last post about 2 days was, if it was perfect working conditions.

We are talking about total man hours alloted. I offered 48 hours total: three 8 hour days, 2 men. Taking into account the conditions listed in the OP.

They think it's half that, and we're adamant that was reasonable. I couldn't understand how. This was the simplist example of all the disagreements we're having on time alloted for specific tasks. My point is, just as fulthrol said, in the real world it takes longer than a ideal situation. If all work was ideal, change orders would be a foreign concept.

So inform them that after 24 man hours have been logged, work will stop and see how they respond

 

[Sierrasparky]

No it's assumed 2 men working, and neither will be me. My comment in the last post about 2 days was, if it was perfect working conditions.

We are talking about total man hours alloted. I offered 48 hours total: three 8 hour days, 2 men. Taking into account the conditions listed in the OP.

They think it's half that, and we're adamant that was reasonable. I couldn't understand how. This was the simplist example of all the disagreements we're having on time alloted for specific tasks. My point is, just as fulthrol said, in the real world it takes longer than a ideal situation. If all work was ideal, change orders would be a foreign concept.

Is that the new math by consensus?
2 days x8hours = 16 x 2 men equals 24?????
It's that new math I guess. consensus!!!!!!!:?

 

[kwired]

I offered 48 hours total: three 8 hour days, 2 men.

Is that the new math by consensus?
2 days x8hours = 16 x 2 men equals 24?????
It's that new math I guess. consensus!!!!!!!:?

Last time I checked 3 x 8 x 2 = 48 or did they change that one on us recently

ETA: His client thought it could be done in half the time - which would be 24, unless that is changed too.

 

[Rewire]

All the above are guesses based on 3rd party suppositions, you can't see the site before you start.

I have never bid a job that a walk through was not allowed. This would have been my signal to pass.

 

[nhfire77]

I have never bid a job that a walk through was not allowed. This would have been my signal to pass.

Right, I should have said. They want the project to start like tomorrow, and no time to see it, but they wanted to agree on it now.

 

[nhfire77]

Last time I checked 3 x 8 x 2 = 48 or did they change that one on us recently

ETA: His client thought it could be done in half the time - which would be 24, unless that is changed too.

I thought I was going crazy when he asked.

 

[ceb58]

Right, I should have said. They want the project to start like tomorrow, and no time to see it, but they wanted to agree on it now.

Sounds like they are in a hurry to screw you.

 

[nhfire77]

Sounds like they are in a hurry to screw you.

We'll I'm not in a screwing mood. I'd never take it for a loss.

 

[satcom]

I have never bid a job that a walk through was not allowed. This would have been my signal to pass.

Over the past 5 years, the flat rate service companies have pretty much taken over the area. They price jobs 2 to 3 times higher and they only grow bigger with more trucks, and more men every year. but one thing I notice they all have in common is they all have the customer sign on the line, before anything happens. they not only look over the job, they take the open door to sell sell sell.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Over the past 5 years, the flat rate service companies have pretty much taken over the area. They price jobs 2 to 3 times higher and they only grow bigger with more trucks, and more men every year. but one thing I notice they all have in common is they all have the customer sign on the line, before anything happens. they not only look over the job, they take the open door to sell sell sell.

yeah. flat rate works for me.

it works even better if your flat rate is a bit cheaper than the other guys flat rate.