AFCI Breakers

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Looking to see if any other electricians have had troubles with nuisance tripping of AFCI breakers. We have a new residence where the paddle fan periodically trips the breaker when turned on. They have also had this problem once with a vacuum cleaner. The load center brand is Siemens if that matters. Is length of the home run a factor? Any feedback is greatly appreciated.
 
Welcome to AFCI haters non-anonamous!

Only folks that appear to love'em are the mfgs ?
 
Eaton's newer ones are ok. The older 6'' long ones were so bad, Eaton owes me thousands of dollars for chasing ghosts and replacing and replacing again a 42 dollar device that was plainly defective and a sham. (I will accept cash as a form of payment, thank you very much) The new ones don't seem to false trip at all. Wonder if they are just a regular breaker with a pigtail, and a phony trip test button. I could believe that after all the problems and revelations about coverups from the producers regarding earlier versions of the devices.
 
junkhound said:
Welcome to AFCI haters non-anonamous!

Only folks that appear to love'em are the mfgs ?
Click to expand...
Thats a Lie (Possibly Sarcasm I would Bet)........I know plenty of Electricians, Electrical Inspectors, Fire Marshals and Home Owners who love them as well.:angel:
 
homeline

homeline

I just did a bedroom rewire, receptacles and one light fixture. All was well until I screwed the light bulb in.
Arc fault tripped right away. unscrew the bulb flip the switch and no trip put bulb back in turn switch on trip.
standard 60 watt bulb.
Any ideas?
 
The circumstances strongly suggest a GF problem.
Possibly crossed neutrals in the light circuit.
Check the breaker diagnostics to confirm it was a GF trip, then trace the wiring.
 
MasterTheNEC said:
I know plenty of Electricians, Electrical Inspectors, Fire Marshals and Home Owners who love them as well.:angel:
Click to expand...

:lol:



pinocchio.jpg
 
Thanks guys I plan on calling Siemens tomorrow to see if they can offer any insight on this. I have heard of this issue for several years now and find it hard to understand that it is still not resolved.
 
Your problem is common when using set speed fan controls. As there are transients ( due to inductance of fan and capacitance of fan control) and sometimes a minor arcing event during the switching of the fan control. I've had this same problem and found that many times it's the rotary switch that is used in the fan control (even different brands) at times internal contacts are not lined up well with the detent therefore creating an arcing event.

Most of the time changing the fan control will resolve, sometimes it takes a few tries to get a good one.

Also, I've met with a Siemens rep that told me as of June16 of 2014 they revised the afci breaker and added additional filtering which is supposed to help address this problem. You'll have to look at the breakers date code on the front sticker at bottom to see if it's the latest model.
First letter X represents manfacturing plant, next 2 XX is year, next 2 XX is month, next 2 XX is day then remaining serial number if memory serves me right.
 
AFCIs are a fraudulent product mandated by the CMP under false pretense. At this point I think someone belongs in prison. :rant:
 
Jraef said:
Don't hold back! Tell it like you see it! :thumbsup:

I think this site should create an AFCI forum all to itself...
Click to expand...


Trust me what I am about to disclose it the tip of the iceberg, I could go on for days at a time. Anyway, the general details:


1. It has never been proven arcs are responsible for dwelling fires. Never. Most fire investigations are not completed by a qualified expert to begin with. When the CPSC asked NRTLs to look into dwelling fires the CPSC funded them to research arcing, not the whole scope of potential fires.


2. The majority of electrical fires are believed to be caused by glowing connections. Glowing connections produce no arc signature and do not just open circuit on their own like others have mentioned before.

3. Arcing staples have also never been proven. While arcing staples or nails sounds like a plausible theory having received much investigation, pyrophoric carbonization from an energized staple or nail has never been investigated with public disclosure. A staple energized with 120 volts trickling current into wood produces no arc signature, yet it can easily turn wood into charcoal over time resulting in fire. When investigator find a smoldering stud, its easy to assume an arc fault having been conditioned with propaganda. Of further not, when UL did testing on over driven staples they discovered that in order for arcing to take place at 120 volts the path must be carbonized with a 1kv plus voltage spike for a long enough duration. Such a spike will destroy the electronics in an AFCI, so even if it were true in the real world the AFCI is fried incapable of stopping it.



4. The rest of the world has a low cost solution: A none electronic sub-main RCD with megger testing required for all new circuits or those having been repaired. Such testing catches over driven staples and wiring errors, while the RCD catches any arc faults to ground.


5. When UL did testing, they determined that all over driven staple faults in testing involved the EGC and thus a condition capable of tripping an RCD. RCD (30/50ma GFP) does all the work and does not nuisance trip.


6. Some manufacturers have taken GFP out of AFCIs which leaves not only unproven arc logic, but also the inability to catch wiring errors like crossed circuits and ground faults no involving an arc.


7. Arc logic is in its infancy. Not only that, the logic used in residential AFCIs is way to primitive. This results in nuisance tripping on NRTL listed appliances.

8. AFCIs drive up cost and back fire;

a. Home owners hire unskilled handyman because their none AFCI quotes are cheaper than an electrician who is forced to follow code.

b. Nuisance tripping AFCIs get taken out, sometimes even by electricians.


c. Electricians have to spend more money on wire and labor because double pole AFCIs are to expensive or don't exist.


d. Electricians and contractors are now wiring to the minimum 3va per foot, meaning fewer circuits taking on more burden. While its true some contractors have always wired to the minimum, that number is going way up.

e. The obvious: Each $37 AFCI breaker adds cost to a new home or panel upgrade.

9. A fraction of the money being used for the above can go toward a low cost sub main GFP (which does all the work) and/or with a requirement for electricians to test all new circuits for good insulation (a quick procedure only involving a one time megger purchase).



10. The rest of the world does option #9 costing less and having lower fire statistics while foreign electricians laugh their heads of at the NEC.


11. The CMP was presented with false, tailored evidence being mislead.

I will write more but that's the rough overview.
 
mbrooke-Your rant is ...well Your rant. From what source did you glean this information ? Your profile states Electrician/Electrical Engineer, So where is your dog in this discussion ? What do you have to gain by defeat of Arc Fault technology ?
 
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