another AFCI nuisance trip question

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bullheimer

Senior Member
Location
WA
usually DONT have issues anymore but this time a house is tripping about five times a day. it has a chinese light fixture with an led on it in a closet and we replaced ALL the 8 ballasts to quick starts in the garage on this ckt for led replacement lamps. BY THE WAY BOX STORE FLOURESCENT FIXTURE BALLASTS ARE ABSOLUTE JUNK, QUIT BUYING THEM! had all 8 go out in one week in this place. Have to get them at a supply house to get the commercial ballast. but i digress.

i think these 8 flouro ballasts with the led direct replacement lamps (the kind you DONT rewire the ends to) are the cause of the nuisance tripping. or maybe the one light in the closet or for all i know, might be a staple in the wall somewhere instead. beats me just wondering if anybody has had afci issues with these direct replacement leds before. i didnt wire this place, but garage lights are on same ckt as bedroom where this afci recept is located. whole house is fed from a sub panel if that makes any diff, i dont have any issues with any of the other 4 afci leviton outlets i have used.

i have had all these garage lights on all day last time i was there now something, i dont know cause i havent been back, is causing this bs. i'm an hours drive from this place too. customer is a lawyer, so contractor does not want any fire issues. not like it matters.

thanks
 
ptonsparky

ptonsparky

Tom
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
FWIW, the problems we now find do not seem to be nuisance trips. PITR, Yes. Try the switches. Try thermal switch on coffee maker. Check the AFCI for trip code. Doesn't have that option? Update it. Are they QOs? Get the newest version. Old house? Brand new?

Have the customer keep track of exactly what they are doing at time of trip, write it down and tell them to not reset the breaker. We have a 90 year old customer that narrowed it down to a certain switch. If she can take the time so can others. Is it going to cost you? Yes. Have fun.:blink:
 
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bullheimer

Senior Member
Location
WA
owners arent there right now. dont think there are any call outs on the recepts. i could be wrong but doubt it. (im not:https://www.leviton.com/sites/REST/...ullpdf/AFTR1-W.pdf?products=AFTR1-W&locale=en) no afci breakers. its just a bedroom and the garage but not the garage outlets, just lights. and there is a fart fan in the laundry too.

i'll have to see if i can get contractor to try to find something that trips it. its about a 20 year old house by the ocean. its being painted so i'm not setting foot in there till the fumes disappear sometime next week. owners wanted all recepts changed. i just love these jobs.....NOT!

oh jeez, i just read on the pdf i attached the leviton afci is made in china. job one: shotgun it outta there. LORD i HATE mixing leviton and eaton gfi's or afci's!!!!
 
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mbrooke

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
Best thing you can do is stick to one AFCI, preferably panel type and go from there. New versions are far less likely to nuisance trip than old ones. In fact if these are more than an year old I would seriously think about replacing them.
 
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bullheimer

Senior Member
Location
WA
there are two other outlets in the bedroom before it heads back out to the garage. i 'm going to swap all of them out for afci recepts with NO feed thru on them. then the lights, fan, etc in the areas that afci is not required will not be protected. i think the garage lights or laundry is causing it so that way all the bedroom outlets are protected but none of the house wiring. kinda defeats the purpose, but i'm not going to baby sit this stinking nob job that's an hours drive north when i'm going to get burned on travel time anyway.
 
mopowr steve

mopowr steve

Senior Member
Location
NW Ohio
Occupation
Electrical contractor
Have had issues in the past with inductive kick-back from exhaust fans when they are turned off, this could be the culprit.

Ive been noticing more and more exhaust fans coming with a capacitor across the leads to the motor to dampen this effect (I think)
 
B

bullheimer

Senior Member
Location
WA
well thats good to know jockey, because my next whole house change out has a GE panel :)
which is good, because around here you can NOT use a breaker in a panel it is not rated for. that usually means a BR, so you cant put a square D into a C-H panel etc. they'll get you every time. i try to use a recep instead of a breaker on these for obvious reasons as well. less owner-monkied wiring to try to protect as well. but i'm sure using 3 afci recepts will take care of it as it will remove all wiring from the circuit. just hope the house doesnt burn down haha (slap face again). oie!
 
romex jockey

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
Occupation
electrician
Bullhiemer,

I've been installin afci's since my state jumped 210.12 in the '98 cycle, tried them all

GE is one of two manufacturers that took the GFP out of their product

Others up on UL1699 could probably explain it better than I could

Bottom line, less call backs & sleep better

wishing it for you as well

~RJ~
 
hbiss

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
Fortunately we are not on the 2017 here yet but I can guarantee you that when we ever do nobody is going to file to replace receptacles. Nobody does now. :happyno:

If I were you I would walk away from that kind of work if you insist on filing, you have to be losing money. If you could just go in and replace receptacles, but how much do you have to charge to cover the AFCI problems? No customer is going to want to pay for it so they hire a handyman to go to HD and replace the receptacles with what was there.

This is getting so bad that there is going to be a revolt!

-Hal
 
A

Adamjamma

Senior Member
Location
Jamaica and london
but, here I am, a handyman, studying the codes as I have been required in the places I work to get certified in the code to do any electrical now... In UK it is Part P certification but still... after years of doing light replacements and switch repairs, have to go to the basics of an apprentice apparently just to earn my 14 grand a year..lol...
Not complaining, because most of it is learning how to bend conduit, and such, stuff I always stayed away from... Now I might be able to do work, in about a year...
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
mopowr steve said:
Have had issues in the past with inductive kick-back from exhaust fans when they are turned off, this could be the culprit.

Ive been noticing more and more exhaust fans coming with a capacitor across the leads to the motor to dampen this effect (I think)
Click to expand...
I have been seeing "ultra silent" fans with capacitors, but pretty certain they are PSC type motors instead of shaded pole motors is the reason they have a capacitor. The cheap fans are still shaded pole motors with lesser blower design.
 
romex jockey

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
Occupation
electrician
Adamjamma said:
but, here I am, a handyman, studying the codes as I have been required in the places I work to get certified in the code to do any electrical now... In UK it is Part P certification but still... after years of doing light replacements and switch repairs, have to go to the basics of an apprentice apparently just to earn my 14 grand a year..lol...
Not complaining, because most of it is learning how to bend conduit, and such, stuff I always stayed away from... Now I might be able to do work, in about a year...
Click to expand...

Try 7-8 to be on one's own here

& good luck Adam


~RJ~
 
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