ansul system

Status
Not open for further replies.

greengoat

Member
Hello long time reader first time posting.
I just wired a commercial cooking hood I knew I had to de-energize exhaust and make up air,the ansul guy said I had to kill receps under hood too.
My question is can I use a contactor to do this since it is 3 single pole circuits. Any possible violations here?
 
I thought the exhaust fan had to continue running to remove smoke?? Also, what about installing shunt trip(s) breakers for the breakers feeding the receps under the hood? The system's micro switch might be a way of controlling the contactor to operate the receps too... now its all about the money. Anyone else?
 

arossi

Member
Hello long time reader first time posting.
I just wired a commercial cooking hood I knew I had to de-energize exhaust and make up air,the ansul guy said I had to kill receps under hood too.
My question is can I use a contactor to do this since it is 3 single pole circuits. Any possible violations here?

-I believe the receptacles under the hood should be on a shunt trip breaker. That way when someone pulls the ansul there is a relay in the hood that will automatically shut down all power under the hood. I'm not sure if its an electrical code but I'd say it is most likely a fire code. Hope that is helpful
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
-I believe the receptacles under the hood should be on a shunt trip breaker. That way when someone pulls the ansul there is a relay in the hood that will automatically shut down all power under the hood. I'm not sure if its an electrical code but I'd say it is most likely a fire code. Hope that is helpful

Not necessarily a shunt-trip breaker. Any method that de-engergizes them will work..... lighting contactor... controlled relay.... shunt breaker....
 

arossi

Member
Sorry,

Usually the hoods I wire will have the shunt trip setup. Seems to be the best way to shutdown power all the way to the source. But I'm sure a relay would work.
 

ultramegabob

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
you can use shunt trip breakers or contactors, the lights under hood must turn off, all power under hood off, make up air off, exhaust on.
 

benaround

Senior Member
Location
Arizona
The device that opens the equipment to be shut down, should be manually resetable. I

can't remember where that comes from. It's to prevent the equipment from energizing after

the Ansul tank has been replaced and reset. Also, In this area they want the exh. fan to

come on even if the exh. fan switch is in the off position, if the system is activated.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
All these responses have covered the main requirements. Every system is different. There are new installs and up-fitting of existing systems. The rules have changed over the years.

New systems can be either self-contained Ansul-type with a pre-wired control box and switches, or can be just fans mounted on ducts, and we have to wire everything together from scratch.

Sometines, there's already one or more shunt-trip breakers, sometimes a whole kitchen panel controlled by a shunt-trip. Often, only the exhaust fan was connected to the micros.

In existing systems, I use contactors; shunt-trips are expensive and require running a cable back to the panel. Contactors are easy, cheap, and can be mounted where needed.

Here's a few pics from a new church kitchen I didn't wire, but I installed the system:

FireChurch1.jpg


FireChurch2.jpg


FireChurch3.jpg


The box contains four contactors. There were four 120v receptacles, so I used two 2p contactors for those. The three cables with the tape (a 12/3 and two 12/2's), are those feeds.

The fan supplies and loads (controlled by two 3p contactors), plus the circuit/light supply, enter and exit the top. From the bottom are the cables to the gas valve and the lights.

The 1/2" flex goes in the wall to the switches, and the 1/2" EMT to the horn-strobe, to the extinguisher box which contains the microswitches, and then on to the gas reset box.

Here's a pic of the wiring diagram:

Fire3.jpg


Both of these circuits were fed by the same supply; I just showed them separated them for ease of tracing. (Big! Sorry.)

Now, under-hood lights must also shut off. Appliances under the hood that must shut down, whether their supply is under the hood or not. Unused receptacles can be blanked off.

We also have to install a horn/strobe unless there's a building alarm system tie-in, and a gas valve w/reset box that must shut down the gas even upon manual exhaust shutdown.

That means every morning starts with turning on the exhaust, pressing the button on the reset box, and then lighting each standing pilot. The owners and cooks HATE this requirement.
 

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
Opinions, opinions, opinions.

I finally got tired of all the "they want" folklore. No one ever seemed willing to come up with a print, a sequence of operation, etc. Just what is 'make up air,' anyway?

Here's a secret ..... the only standard I've been able to find that relates to this is NFPA 96; NFPA 17A also repeats much. GET the standard. READ it. You WILL be surprised.
 

stew

Senior Member
I use the no contact on the ansul to activate a contactor to turn off any receptacles or lites under the hood. much less expensive than shunt trips. the nc contact runs your make up air fan either with or without a relay or cantactor. that way when the ansul is activated the make up stops ,the devices turn off, and the exhaust continues to run.
 

nakulak

Senior Member
what larry said works for around here too -shunt trip, contactors, mish mash -as long as it works properly its ok by fire marshal, so we just make it work. I feel better when the job has the money to have one single logistics panel, though, so that people in future can easily trouble shoot the system.

in my area the following has to occur for it to be compliant:
-all equip under hood goes off (sometimes gas valves are required also
-exhaust has to go on and run for at least 45 min (some prewired ansuls have a 45 min timer module)
-FA has to activate
-any AC or heat unit moving air has to go off (we never use thermostatic controls for this, not sure if that is allowed or not)
-general lights in room usually stay on, sometimes lights under hood are required to go off, sometimes not
-any other exhaust fans in the room have to go off (example - a dishwasher with its own hood exhaust)
 

RICK NAPIER

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
The system requires a manual reset. It must shut off make up air and all gas and electric under the hood that would provide heat to the protected appliances. The lights do not have to shut down. This is based on the IBC and IFC which will direct you to 2009 NFPA 17 and 17a. In 17 look at sections 9.3 to 9.7. In 17A section 5.3.3 and other sections.
 
Last edited:

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I want to add that, in the upper half of my drawing, the gas-valve reset box would be connected to the same NC terminal as the intake fan, so it can be set (or reset) only when the exhaust fan is on, except for when the system has tripped.
 

RICK NAPIER

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
As I noted in the code sections above the combustion air feed as well as the sources of heat protected by the ansul system must be disconnected. The idea is to end the heat sources for the fire and the air being fed into it. The exhaust can continue and usually does.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I was just told by the Ansul installer that the lights under the hood where fine as long as they were explosion proof fixtures. ???
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top