Are Push-In type connectors used?

[goldstar]

Also the fact that you constantly push in and out on receptacles may be the reason they are likely to fail and the wago's may not. As I stated before I have only seen wago's used for one light not 20 amp loads. They may do fine without the constant motion. IDK

I think you're right on the money with this Dennis. These devices are OK for small lighting loads (i.e Halo recessed cans, etc.). However, IMHO, I wouldn't use them for receptacle or other large draw loads. People have a tendency to see an unused receptacle and assume they can plug 2 electric heaters into them. Don't forget, that first Wago splice is taking the heat for every other connected device down-stream.

 

[renosteinke]

To answer the OP: Push-in connectors are my preferred method. I've only had one failure, and that was when I used them on a badly chewed-up, previously used wire end.

This contrasts with my wire-nut experience, where I've had plenty of problems, particularly where multiple wires of different type and size are connected.

Another advantage is that you can easily, and safely, tie in a new line to an existing 'hot' circuit. Just push the new wire into an open hole; no need to expose the actual hot wire ends.

Wire nuts do have their uses. For example, I will use nuts to connect devices to pigtails; now you can change a device without disturbing the push-in connector.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The design between the push in connectors and push in terminals in a receptacle are totally different and I would not expect near as many failures on the push in connectors as we have seen with the receptacle terminals.

In industrial equipment, push in terminal blocks are often used because they do not loosen with vibration like screw type terminal blocks do.

 

[kwired]

I think you're right on the money with this Dennis. These devices are OK for small lighting loads (i.e Halo recessed cans, etc.). However, IMHO, I wouldn't use them for receptacle or other large draw loads. People have a tendency to see an unused receptacle and assume they can plug 2 electric heaters into them. Don't forget, that first Wago splice is taking the heat for every other connected device down-stream.

Don't forget that if you are supplying a daisy chained group of recessed cans or something similar that you have the same thing. One port is the low current of the luminaire. The other ports - one is carrying all current, the others are carrying current that sums up to whatever total current is.

 

[PetrosA]

I see a few suspect things on that photo:

High temp terminals and wire. Was the ambient temp where the push-in connectors were used within the rated range of those connectors?

Stranded wire, possibly fine strands. Were the connectors rated for use with fine strand wire? Most push-in connectors are not rated for use with fine stranded wire (Wago makes one with a lever clamp for fine strand wires). Considering that the photo shows 16AWG conductors and (?) silicone insulation, if they were fine strands and a large load it would explain the destruction.

 

[kwired]

I see a few suspect things on that photo:

High temp terminals and wire. Was the ambient temp where the push-in connectors were used within the rated range of those connectors?

Stranded wire, possibly fine strands. Were the connectors rated for use with fine strand wire? Most push-in connectors are not rated for use with fine stranded wire (Wago makes one with a lever clamp for fine strand wires). Considering that the photo shows 16AWG conductors and (?) silicone insulation, if they were fine strands and a large load it would explain the destruction.

My guess would be the high temp wire probably goes to something that does need high temp wire, but we are seeing the supply end of the conductor in the photo. If fine strands are tinned can they be used in a WAGO connector? I would like to think so.

 

[iwire]

My opinion: If you consider yourself an electrician who does quality work, use wire nuts and pre twist.

Thanks for looking down on those of us who use other methods.

 

[goldstar]

Don't forget that if you are supplying a daisy chained group of recessed cans or something similar that you have the same thing. One port is the low current of the luminaire. The other ports - one is carrying all current, the others are carrying current that sums up to whatever total current is.

That is correct but lighting loads are generally not as great as receptacle loads.

 

[liquidtite]

plus if you want to add a conductor to the wago pushins and all the stabs are taken you have to go and resplice all the wires .I hate when i open a box and find when this occurs .Wire nuts just seem like it makes a better connection and its easier to add more conductors to

 

[PetrosA]

My guess would be the high temp wire probably goes to something that does need high temp wire, but we are seeing the supply end of the conductor in the photo. If fine strands are tinned can they be used in a WAGO connector? I would like to think so.

Check out the very bottom of the last page. It claims that the 773-124's have one port that can accept 18-22 tinned or solid for use in lighting fixtures. Most of their wall nuts can accept 16-10 AWG, up to 19 strands. I haven't seen any info on whether or not tinning other sizes of stranded wires is acceptable. If it is, there are probably certain blends of solder you'd have to use for temperature rating.

http://www.wago.us/downloads/50097682.pdf

 

[readydave8]

I always thought one reason backstab receptacle connections fail is because sometimes its hard to tell if wire is pushed all the way in. I backstabbed receptacles 1st year or 2 and had gobacks for the next 8 years. One thing I like about the Ideal "wagos" is they are transparent, I can see that wire is getting all the way to the end. I don't always use them but have been occasionally using probably 10 yrs (?) and not noticed problems. Yet.

 

[mjf]

plus if you want to add a conductor to the wago pushins and all the stabs are taken you have to go and resplice all the wires .I hate when i open a box and find when this occurs .Wire nuts just seem like it makes a better connection and its easier to add more conductors to

Just ran across this today. All I did was cut one existing wire in half and fed an additional wago with it. Simple and easy.

 

[electrofelon]

The design between the push in connectors and push in terminals in a receptacle are totally different and I would not expect near as many failures on the push in connectors as we have seen with the receptacle terminals.

In industrial equipment, push in terminal blocks are often used because they do not loosen with vibration like screw type terminal blocks do.

Really? What is totally different about them? I admit I have never taken both apart and inspected them side by side by I imagine the principle is very similar. I was just informed that there is a type that have some sort of lever which tightens the connection. I have never seem that type, maybe that is what you were referring to?

iwire

Quote Originally Posted by electrofelon View Post
My opinion: If you consider yourself an electrician who does quality work, use wire nuts and pre twist.
Thanks for looking down on those of us who use other methods.

Sorry to those of you I offend. I do have a very pessimistic view of most tradespeople i come across. I hope my experiences are just much worse than average.

 

[Little Bill]

Really? What is totally different about them? I admit I have never taken both apart and inspected them side by side by I imagine the principle is very similar. I was just informed that there is a type that have some sort of lever which tightens the connection. I have never seem that type, maybe that is what you were referring to?





Sorry to those of you I offend. I do have a very pessimistic view of most tradespeople i come across. I hope my experiences are just much worse than average.

Someone dissected a wago and backstab receptacle and posted a picture. I can't seem to find it and it might have been on another forum. Anyway it clearly showed the difference between the two.

The backstab just had a spring that put pressure on the wire. The Wago or Ideal Push-in also has a spring but it actually digs into the wire, making a better connection.
If you pull a wire out of a Wago you can look at the copper and see where the spring dug into it.

Someone mentioned not being able to reuse them if you have to pull out a wire. You can reuse them and it says so on the package. Well most of them anyway.
I have some 6-port Ideals that say on the package not to reuse those.

I haven't had any trouble out of them except once I failed to get the wire all the way in. I have since learned better ways of inserting the wires.
I've been using them for 2 years in the field and longer than that in an industrial setting.

They are also a lifesaver when you find a box with only a couple on inches of wire in it and you need to make a splice!:thumbsup:

 

[kwired]

That is correct but lighting loads are generally not as great as receptacle loads.

Really? You never put near circuit capacity on a circuit with nothing but lighting? Especially in commercial installations?

 

[goldstar]

Really? You never put near circuit capacity on a circuit with nothing but lighting? Especially in commercial installations?

I generally don't load a circuit beyond 80% of the breaker size but I know it's done. So, I suppose you're right. Sometimes I don't think out of the box. But thinking along those lines, let's say you have a group of 2 x 2 drop in fluorescent fixtures w/ electronic ballasts and (2) U-bent 32 watt bulbs per fixture. Each fixture draws .52 amps. Would you customarily put 30 fixtures on one circuit and draw 15.6 amps on a 20 amp circuit or would you load the circuit to 38 fixtures and draw 19.76 amps ? I'm not trying to pirate this thread away from the OP. I'm just curious to know your thinking on this because I know you love banging heads with me.

 

[RLyons]

I see a few suspect things on that photo:

High temp terminals and wire. Was the ambient temp where the push-in connectors were used within the rated range of those connectors?

Stranded wire, possibly fine strands. Were the connectors rated for use with fine strand wire? Most push-in connectors are not rated for use with fine stranded wire (Wago makes one with a lever clamp for fine strand wires). Considering that the photo shows 16AWG conductors and (?) silicone insulation, if they were fine strands and a large load it would explain the destruction.

First let me say This wasn't my handy work. So this is the inside of a 2 burner hot plate used in a water testing lab not sure of the specifications of the unit. There is a 12ga solid copper feed going into the wego and 2 factory 16ga. heavy strand tinned conductors feeding each burner.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Really? What is totally different about them? I admit I have never taken both apart and inspected them side by side by I imagine the principle is very similar. I was just informed that there is a type that have some sort of lever which tightens the connection. I have never seem that type, maybe that is what you were referring to?. ...

The principle is similar but the construction is different. Only the end of the metal used as the spring to create the contact pressure for the connection is used in the push-in receptacles. This spring metal is very thin and there is very little contact area beween the wire and spring. The actual contact area for the electrical connection is opposite the spring.

The push in wire connectors use a bent metal spring with a much larger area of the spring in contact with the wire to create the connection pressure.

I have not seen the lever type.

 

[kwired]

I generally don't load a circuit beyond 80% of the breaker size but I know it's done. So, I suppose you're right. Sometimes I don't think out of the box. But thinking along those lines, let's say you have a group of 2 x 2 drop in fluorescent fixtures w/ electronic ballasts and (2) U-bent 32 watt bulbs per fixture. Each fixture draws .52 amps. Would you customarily put 30 fixtures on one circuit and draw 15.6 amps on a 20 amp circuit or would you load the circuit to 38 fixtures and draw 19.76 amps ? I'm not trying to pirate this thread away from the OP. I'm just curious to know your thinking on this because I know you love banging heads with me.

I see lighting as a continuous load most cases, so 80% will apply. So if you are supplying one chain of luminaires loaded to 15.6 amps the connectors at the first luminaire are carrying 15.6 amps vs the last one that is only carrying .52 amps, that is more current than a backstabbed receptacle with a 1500 watt heater plugged into it has passing through it. (and the heater is true power, the electronic ballasts still have harmonic currents added to the mix)

 

[goldstar]

The design between the push in connectors and push in terminals in a receptacle are totally different and I would not expect near as many failures on the push in connectors as we have seen with the receptacle terminals.

In industrial equipment, push in terminal blocks are often used because they do not loosen with vibration like screw type terminal blocks do.

Just curious, would you think these would be an acceptable means of splicing neutrals in a MWBC ?