Are Push-In type connectors used?

[iwire]

Just curious, would you think these would be an acceptable means of splicing neutrals in a MWBC ?

They are acceptable for that.

I work in the service division of a large electrical contractor, the construction side has been using push in connectors almost exclusively for at least a few years now. We are not seeing failures.

 

[jumper]

Just curious, would you think these would be an acceptable means of splicing neutrals in a MWBC ?

Why would they not be acceptable?

 

[kwired]

Just curious, would you think these would be an acceptable means of splicing neutrals in a MWBC ?

Why not? Twist on connectors can fail easily also if not installed properly. Have also seen neutral bus bars in panelboards fail because of a loose screw or something similar which yields similar results.

 

[George Stolz]

My opinion: If you consider yourself an electrician who does quality work, use wire nuts and pre twist. Post twisting is acceptable but pre-twisting has the advantage of allowing you to inspect before the wire nuts goes on (and I think is just plain quicker than twisting that wirenut so may times). The Wagos havent been around that long and I predict that with time they will be no different than backstabs. How much money and time are you really saving? Did a service call for a backstabbed outlet that failed, and Ill bet the cost of that service call would have covered the extra time to not backstab. Maybe Im just equivalent to the guy 60 years ago who said "forget these wirenuts, Im grabbing my solder..." but time will tell

I have to agree, I hate Wagos. I am truly amazed that there are so few reports of problems, seems as though I find a problem whenever I get within earshot of one.

 

[mjf]

I have to agree, I hate Wagos. I am truly amazed that there are so few reports of problems, seems as though I find a problem whenever I get within earshot of one.

Looks like that was hot and never even had a device installed (paint still in screw hole).

Perhaps the fault lies in the rotozipper (or wiring not far enough back in the box at rough-in) and not the wago??

 

[George Stolz]

Looks like that was hot and never even had a device installed (paint still in screw hole).

Yep, the receptacle was tied through for temp power to a heater (2A).

Perhaps the fault lies in the rotozipper (or wiring not far enough back in the box at rough-in) and not the wago??

That didn't look to be the case when I got there. The wire was folded neatly in the back of the box, like it's neighbors.

 

[goldstar]

They are acceptable for that.

I work in the service division of a large electrical contractor, the construction side has been using push in connectors almost exclusively for at least a few years now. We are not seeing failures.

Why would they not be acceptable?

Why not? Twist on connectors can fail easily also if not installed properly. Have also seen neutral bus bars in panelboards fail because of a loose screw or something similar which yields similar results.

I suppose it could be argued that one method was better than another. My thinking was that, with regard to wire nuts, at least you have the opportunity to twist the wires together before screwing on the wire nut. Granted, the splice could still come apart but perceptually to me the chances are a lot less than using Wagos. Another point is that when using Wagos in a cascaded lighting situation, if the Wago failed anywhere in the neurtal leg all that would happen is that the lights go out. If you have a failed neutral connection in a MWBC - now you have big problems. I suppose it comes down to confidence in the product. I like using them in Halo recessed light fixtures and I would feel confident using them when making up a single phase splice in a junction box. However, I'm not as confident making up a neutral splice in a MWBC. IMHO, I'd choose the wire nut over the Wago.

 

[goldstar]

Nice pic George.:happyyes:

 

[jim dungar]

Please keep in mind that WAGO is the name of a company, it is not a type of connector.
http://www.wago.us/downloads/Electrical_Installation_Brochure.pdf

I assume you are describing issues with their Wall-Nut brand, that uses their trade-marked 'Pushwire' connector, or a similar product from another manufacturer like Ideal, instead of the Wago 'Lighting and Service Connector (which uses a "Clamp" connector for the fixture side and a "Pushwire" for the power side).

 

[goldstar]

Please keep in mind that WAGO is the name of a company, it is not a type of connector.
http://www.wago.us/downloads/Electrical_Installation_Brochure.pdf

I assume you are describing issues with their Wall-Nut brand, that uses their trade-marked 'Pushwire' connector, or a similar product from another manufacturer like Ideal, instead of the Wago 'Lighting and Service Connector (which uses a "Clamp" connector for the fixture side and a "Pushwire" for the power side).

I'm not sure what brand we're talking about. We got on the subject of Wago push-in connectors. If there's one brand or type that's inferior we should bring that up for discussion before we go too far.

 

[George Stolz]

Mine was a sure nuff Wago.

 

[jim dungar]

I'm not sure what brand we're talking about.

You have been part of the discussion, what connectors were you talking about?

Over my career I have used several of the different style push-in connections (e.g. insulation displacement, lever clamp, spring clamp, and 'Pushwire'), manufactured by Wago and others. For high vibration locations (installed and especially during shipment), these all appeared to have been better choices then twisted/screw-based connections.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Just curious, would you think these would be an acceptable means of splicing neutrals in a MWBC ?

They are just as acceptable as any other listed connector.

 

[Little Bill]

I have to agree, I hate Wagos. I am truly amazed that there are so few reports of problems, seems as though I find a problem whenever I get within earshot of one.

I would bet and win (well a 99% chance) that that Wago was not installed correctly. I mentioned it earlier that the only failure I saw was when I didn't get the wire all the way in. It didn't get to that point (hot) as I caught the lights flickering and traced it down to one bad connection brought on by OPERATOR ERROR!

I have found the same or worse burned wires from loose wire nuts as well.

The only place I might not use them would be where it would be hard to get to the box after installation and the loads were pure resistive heavy loads. And that's just in case I might miss getting one wire into the connector far enough.

 

[goldstar]

You have been part of the discussion, what connectors were you talking about?

Over my career I have used several of the different style push-in connections (e.g. insulation displacement, lever clamp, spring clamp, and 'Pushwire'), manufactured by Wago and others. For high vibration locations (installed and especially during shipment), these all appeared to have been better choices then twisted/screw-based connections.

After looking back through the thread these are the products that have been mentioned thus far:

• In-Sure? Push-In Wire Connectors
• WAGO Wall-Nuts Series 773 (4 & 8 circuit)
• Wago 773-124
• a type that has some sort of lever which tightens the connection (unknown brand)
• Ideal Push-in

Al I meant was that as far as I'm concerned they're all the same quality unless someone can state or verify that any of these are inferior to another.

 

[jumper]

After looking back through the thread these are the products that have been mentioned thus far:

• In-Sure? Push-In Wire Connectors
• WAGO Wall-Nuts Series 773 (4 & 8 circuit)
• Wago 773-124
• a type that has some sort of lever which tightens the connection (unknown brand)
• Ideal Push-in

Al I meant was that as far as I'm concerned they're all the same quality unless someone can state or verify that any of these are inferior to another.

One such type.

http://www.newark.com/wago/222-413-...3pos-28/dp/28K2061?in_merch=Featured Products

 

[goldstar]

One such type.

http://www.newark.com/wago/222-413-...3pos-28/dp/28K2061?in_merch=Featured Products

Thanks for posting that. I didn't happen to see a UL listing for this product like the other Wago products did. Is there one ?

 

[jumper]

Thanks for posting that. I didn't happen to see a UL listing for this product like the other Wago products did. Is there one ?

I do not know, but 110.14 just says that they have to identified, not listed.

 

[kwired]

Please keep in mind that WAGO is the name of a company, it is not a type of connector.
http://www.wago.us/downloads/Electrical_Installation_Brochure.pdf

I assume you are describing issues with their Wall-Nut brand, that uses their trade-marked 'Pushwire' connector, or a similar product from another manufacturer like Ideal, instead of the Wago 'Lighting and Service Connector (which uses a "Clamp" connector for the fixture side and a "Pushwire" for the power side).

I was assuming we were talking about push in type connectors similar in design to the Wall-Nut series in general and not any one brand in particular. I do realize WAGO is the name of a specific product or company. So is the name Romex, yet many use it as a general name for all types of non-metallic sheathed cable.


I believe the name Wire Nut also is a product name belonging to Ideal, so to be proper we should just call them twist on connectors unless referring specifically to Ideal's Wire Nut.

 

[jim dungar]

This is not directed to a specific person or post.

My point is: the connectors, in Goldstar's list, are all of the same 'design' but different manufacturers, however the connectors I listed are all the same manufacturer but are different 'designs'.
I have no problem following the discussion using generic/slang names, like 'push-in' connectors or NM, I can be tolerant of the co-opting of a brand name, like 'Wall-Nut' or Romex, but using a just a manufacturer's name, like Wago or Southwire, can easily lead to confusion.