Backstabbing at your home

[ceb58]

Recently did work in a development that was built in the late 70's for military housing. New owners of the development were doing upgrades to all of the 250 houses. I had to replace several receptacles that had failed due to back stabbing. The original contractor must have got a deal on all of the receptacles because they were back stab, only no screw to side wire with.

 

[MHElectric]

Recently did work in a development that was built in the late 70's for military housing. New owners of the development were doing upgrades to all of the 250 houses. I had to replace several receptacles that had failed due to back stabbing. The original contractor must have got a deal on all of the receptacles because they were back stab, only no screw to side wire with.

If they were built in the late 70's, then that means those backstabbed connections have lasted over 35+ years. That's a pretty good run. Well worth every penny.

I'd like to see anything made these days last 35 years.

 

[junkhound]

those backstabbed connections have lasted over 35+ years. QUOTE]

that is 'cause after the first 10 years the plugs would fall out and the HO would have to use a different outlet ?

 

[LEO2854]

If you personally wired your own house, would you backstab 15 and 20 amp devices ?

Be Truthful

Nope, I would do it the same as all the jobs I do. I make up each box with pigtails and wrap around the screws---the best part of pigtailing is you spend the minimum time on your knees doing the trim out.

 

[LEO2854]

I'll admit, I'm not a big fan of it. I think it should be outlawed imo and I also think there is plenty of evidence against it. All I see is this when I close my eyes and think of backstabbing before bedtime

That will never happen, and that creates easy service calls, so why kill the cash cow.?

 

[ptonsparky]

Way back when I back stabbed. The few I have done in my own home and those we do on other jobs are tailed,wrapped on the device screws, or use the plates.

We do find loose connections on the older stabbed devices but I don't believe the glowing connections are any more prevalent on those than screws. The few glowing connections that stand out were screwed.

 

[kwired]

+1, zero backstab devices in own home. Do have a lot of the clamp plate devices but do not consider those 'backstab' although some folks do. All spec grade in own home, mostly Hubbell.

I don't consider pressure plate devices as "Back stab". You insert conuctor and then tighten the pressure plate, how is that "stabbing" only? There are breakers, motor starters, other "industrial grade" equipment with very similar termination methods.

If they were built in the late 70's, then that means those backstabbed connections have lasted over 35+ years. That's a pretty good run. Well worth every penny.

I'd like to see anything made these days last 35 years.

The original owner/occupant maybe never loaded certain circuits to any level to cause toubles. 35 years later a new occupant arrives and has different load patterns and some items finally fail that may have sooner if the load were similar.

 

[Cletis]

That will never happen, and that creates easy service calls, so why kill the cash cow.?

I know what you mean. I'm torn on this issue Loss of life v.s. More Service Calls I can't decide really

 

[mbrooke]

I don't really have a preference for code minimum.

contradicted by this:

I just don't find a reason to spend more money than needed.

Since code minimum is the cheapest price without actually violating it.

 

[Canton]

Ive made a lot of money repairing backstab devices

I will second that! I love service calls, even more when cheap or inferior products have been used.

 

[James L]

I rewired my sister's house, and backstabbed every device. I won't say whether or not I like her.

But seriously, I rewired my own house back in 1997. It was built in the 60s, wired with aluminum. I backstabbed at my own house. For the record, I no longer live there.

At my current home, I recently added a plug and backstabbed it. I would do it in again in a minute.

I'm curious, though, why do anti-backstabbers generally have no problem backstabbing wires on a switch?


People see what they want to see. You want to see problems with backstabbing, you're going to see problems. I see problems with receps that have wires wrapped around the screws, too.

It's like buying a car, then all of a sudden every third car you see is just like yours. You might have never seen a Kia Rio on the road. But go buy one and you'll see how many are out there.

 

[mbrooke]

I rewired my sister's house, and backstabbed every device. I won't say whether or not I like her.

But seriously, I rewired my own house back in 1997. It was built in the 60s, wired with aluminum. I backstabbed at my own house. For the record, I no longer live there.

At my current home, I recently added a plug and backstabbed it. I would do it in again in a minute.

I'm curious, though, why do anti-backstabbers generally have no problem backstabbing wires on a switch?


People see what they want to see. You want to see problems with backstabbing, you're going to see problems. I see problems with receps that have wires wrapped around the screws, too.

It's like buying a car, then all of a sudden every third car you see is just like yours. You might have never seen a Kia Rio on the road. But go buy one and you'll see how many are out there.

I don't do it even on switches.

I don't go out and project my concerns on back stabs. Ive seen enough relative to side screws (yes Ive seen those fail too) to reach the conclusion that back stabs are far more failure prone.


Further, all one has to do is drill open a back stab. Anyone with a bit of electrical and mechanical engineering can see the connection for what it is: sub par compared to side clamp and side screw.

Spending time on international forums it doesn't take me long to figure out why back stabs are dis-allowed a broad.


How grown electricians can openly say there is nothing wrong with doing something where they think there is even a slight chance of failure is just mind blowing. Perhaps we have no concerns over electrical fires? After all our license and a listing will bail us out no matter what?

 

[Cletis]

Looks perfectly fine to me :roll:

 

[kwired]

Looks perfectly fine to me :roll:

I am less concerned about the area of contact then I am about assurance that sufficient contact pressure will be maintained.

I am more confident in good maintenance of contact pressure in things like "Wago wall nuts", or other similar products then I am in most typical switches and receptacles that accept push in terminations.

 

[mbrooke]

Looks perfectly fine to me :roll:

High def, and at another angle tells a different story. That blurred picture makes the area of contact look intimate with the cooper while the blade contact is made to look like a pair of needle nose pliers griping the prongs with its nose tip.


Reality is more than 2D.

 

[mbrooke]

This brand tells a different story:

 

[James L]

I don't do it even on switches.

I don't go out and project my concerns on back stabs. Ive seen enough relative to side screws (yes Ive seen those fail too) to reach the conclusion that back stabs are far more failure prone.

That's sort of subjective and relative, though.

I've pulled receps and switches out of the wall, finding the backstabbed wires pulled out. But I've also pulled them out to find screws are loose, too.

Do those loose screws always indicate installer error, or do you suppose they loosen over time? Ive seen plenty of loose screws on breakers and neutral bars too. Screws loosen over time, and loose is loose

As for receps, the blade insertions get loose before the backstabs, imho

The remedy is proper maintenance, which I suggest to as many customers as I can. I suggest a thorough maintenance call every 6-8 years, and whole house device replacement after 20 years.


Even if backstabs were far more prone to failure, should that necessarily translate into an aversion to the use of them?

Gas furnaces are far more prone to failure than an electric furnace, especially as the years go by. Maybe gas furnaces should be outlawed?

Asphalt roofs are far more prone to failure than slate roofs, especially as time goes by.

Wood fences fail way before wrought iron

Stuff wears out, that's just a fact of life. And compared to other things around the house, people are negligent when it comes to electrical maintenance. Not our fault, and we're not gonna save the world by refusing to backstab

 

[MHElectric]

That's sort of subjective and relative, though.

I've pulled receps and switches out of the wall, finding the backstabbed wires pulled out. But I've also pulled them out to find screws are loose, too.

Do those loose screws always indicate installer error, or do you suppose they loosen over time? Ive seen plenty of loose screws on breakers and neutral bars too. Screws loosen over time, and loose is loose

As for receps, the blade insertions get loose before the backstabs, imho

The remedy is proper maintenance, which I suggest to as many customers as I can. I suggest a thorough maintenance call every 6-8 years, and whole house device replacement after 20 years.


Even if backstabs were far more prone to failure, should that necessarily translate into an aversion to the use of them?

Gas furnaces are far more prone to failure than an electric furnace, especially as the years go by. Maybe gas furnaces should be outlawed?

Asphalt roofs are far more prone to failure than slate roofs, especially as time goes by.

Wood fences fail way before wrought iron

Stuff wears out, that's just a fact of life. And compared to other things around the house, people are negligent when it comes to electrical maintenance. Not our fault, and we're not gonna save the world by refusing to backstab

Very true. Everything will eventually fail.

 

[goldstar]

I'm curious, though, why do anti-backstabbers generally have no problem backstabbing wires on a switch?

Usually when you back-stab a light switch the load at the switch is limited to that particular lighting load. At least you know what the load is when you make that connection. When you back-stab receptacles you really don't know what the loads may be at any given receptacle. The first receptacle on the run is taking the heat for everything downstream of it. It's the feed-thru feature while using the back-stab that's the problem. IMHO, the feed thru feature of a 15 amp receptacle is rated at 20 amps if you're using the screw terminals to make your connections. If the stabs were rated at 20 amps the mfrs. would make the holes in the back of the receptacle big enough to push in a # 12.

We all know that when HO's see an open spot on a duplex receptacle they don't ask themselves "How much can this receptacle or circuit handle". They just go to HD or Lowe's and buy a couple of space heaters and start plugging them in wherever they can. If the circuit doesn't trip, the wire will heat up enough to cause the pressure clip at that first receptacle to loosen and either start arcing or pop out of the receptacle altogether.

 

[iwire]

contradicted by this:





Since code minimum is the cheapest price without actually violating it.

No contradiction at all.:lol:

In this thread we were specifically talking about backstabbing in your our own home. In the general use bedroom outlets I used all that was needed ..... code minimum in your mind. However at some key windows that have window ACs I spent more money for those receptacles as they are heavly loaded and cycled often.


And FWIW if you do electrical installations you work to code minimums as well.