Bath receptacle in bathtub space???

[mistermudd]

I see there has been questions about what is to the left of the picture. There is twin basins with an another receptacle to the left of the left side basin. It is cut into the mirror. There is also two vanity lights cut into the mirror. I was told by the general contractor that the receptacle in the picture was relocated father to the right because it was on the edge of the mirror and it was an easier fix to move it all the way out of the mirror. It might have been hard to catch at rough in but that is the time to notice something like this and I would recommend it installed between the basins. (I know some guys on this thread would tell me to take a hike, but I have a good working relationship with the people I work with and most would not have a problem making that adjustment, much better than doing it at final.) I mentioned before I really did not like the location but passed it anyways. I was not given much of a choice by my supervisor and by code it is not directly above the tub. I still reserve the right to make interpretations per NEC 90.4 and I would not allow a receptacle anywhere on a wall in the footprint of free standing tub below or above the tub. There is no reason I can think of to have a plug in this area (expect for a flat screen TV).

 

[George Stolz]

It might have been hard to catch at rough in but that is the time to notice something like this and I would recommend it installed between the basins.

How far from the right sink was the receptacle on the left?

 

[dnem]

I don't see a stall nor is the tub touching the wall, so 406.8(C) doesn't apply.
But if there was either a stall or wall contact, I would argue in support of application of 406.8(C).

 

[dnem]

6' ?? yeah much safer with extension cords all over the floor :-?

As far a the NEC goes there is no such thing as a bathtubstall

David ,.what you are describing is an area surrounding the bathtub If that area is not directly over the bathtub it is fair game,,, call it what ever you want to,. as long as you don't call it a violation.

I understand this as your interpretation.

If I was inspecting your job, we would go with your interpretation even tho I don't agree with it.

 

[dnem]

So until something more defined comes along I expect I'll see the two of you rolling the house up on its side, dropping a plumb bob off the tub, and then having at it.

I just got an idea for a new reality show !!!

 

[dnem]

Oh yeah...bathtub stall I love when people make up words to bolster their argument on a code issue.

If 406.8(C) said "shower or bathtub stall" would you "makeup" shower stall ? . The CMP can call that space by any words they chose just like they changed "lamp" to "luminaire". . Who came up with that one ?

 

[pfalcon]

Oh yeah...bathtub stall I love when people make up words to bolster their argument on a code issue.

Since Shakespeare made up over 1700 I feel we are in better company than those who have never made up a new word :grin:

 

[electricmanscott]

If 406.8(C) said "shower or bathtub stall" would you "makeup" shower stall ? . The CMP can call that space by any words they chose just like they changed "lamp" to "luminaire". . Who came up with that one ?

I don't know what you are getting at but I do know it does not say "Bathtub stall" in this article. Somebody made that word up to argue their point.

My point is you can't take different parts of the requirement and put them together to form new words and then say, see what it says.

 

[George Stolz]

My point is you can't take different parts of the requirement and put them together to form new words and then say, see what it says.

Of course you can!

90.1(A) Practical Safeguarding. The purpose of this Code is the practical safeguarding of electricity from hazards arising from the use of persons.

It's fun, you try one!

 

[mistermudd]

The receptacle left of the left basin is more than 3 ft. from the right basin and would not be adjacent to the right basin because the cord would have to cross the left basin to get to the right basin. Right?

 

[George Stolz]

The receptacle left of the left basin is more than 3 ft. from the right basin and would not be adjacent to the right basin because the cord would have to cross the left basin to get to the right basin. Right?

There is no language to prevent crossing a basin to plug into the receptacle.

I can't tell from the picture how far away the second sink is from the receptacle.

 

[dnem]

The receptacle left of the left basin is more than 3 ft. from the right basin and would not be adjacent to the right basin because the cord would have to cross the left basin to get to the right basin. Right?

There is no language to prevent crossing a basin to plug into the receptacle.

I can't tell from the picture how far away the second sink is from the receptacle.

"no language to prevent crossing a basin to plug into the receptacle"

This would need a whole new thread to cover.

And here's how the issue breaks down:
If 210.52(D) said, "The receptacle outlet shall be located on a wall or partition that is adjacent to the basin", then there wouldn't be a dispute. . The adjacent language would prevent installing the plug so that you would have to cross the closer basin to plug into the receptacle and use the farther basin.
But 210.52(D) says, "The receptacle outlet shall be located on a wall or partition that is adjacent to the basin or basin countertop.". . So now there is reason to define if the 2 basins technically share a single countertop or is it 2 countertops because you have 2 basins. . Depending on whether you have one or 2 countertops, then the "adjacent" spec comes into play.

I've heard this conversation before and it would take a whole thread to run thru it again.

David

 

[dnem]

If 406.8(C) said "shower or bathtub stall" would you "makeup" shower stall ? . The CMP can call that space by any words they chose just like they changed "lamp" to "luminaire". . Who came up with that one ?

I don't know what you are getting at but I do know it does not say "Bathtub stall" in this article. Somebody made that word up to argue their point.

My point is you can't take different parts of the requirement and put them together to form new words and then say, see what it says.

Page after page after page of this thread and we still have someone falling back on the argument that the word "or" is an unbreachable barrier !

How about other examples of how the NEC uses the word ?or?. . Lets take 410.10(E).
?mercury vapor or metal halide lamps?. . Does the word ?lamp? only apply to metal halide ?
?glass or plastic lens?. . Does the word ?lens? only apply to plastic ?

Should I put electricmanscott down as not believing in mercury vapor lamps and glass lenses ? . It's the mythological OR barrier !

Bathtub stalls, mercury vapor lamps, glass lenses, Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy, Big Foot, Lochness Monster ... I guess none of them exist [well except maybe the Tooth Fairy].

This thread can go on forever and it wouldn't change the fact that an interpretation is involved. . Anybody that thinks this is a "slamdunk" either way is just fooling themself.

David

 

[elohr46]

Here is the answer. Fill the tub with warm water, then place your two year old child or grandchild in the tub. Plug a radio into the outlet, turn it on and place it on the sink top. Then ask youself if that receptacle belongs there. Code or no code sometimes common sense is the answer.

 

[dnem]

Here is the answer. Fill the tub with warm water, then place your two year old child or grandchild in the tub. Plug a radio into the outlet, turn it on and place it on the sink top. Then ask youself if that receptacle belongs there. Code or no code sometimes common sense is the answer.

Has the GFCI been tested lately ? . And how well behaved is the child ? . Because this might morph into a genepool question :grin:

David

 

[electricman2]

Has the GFCI been tested lately ? . And how well behaved is the child ? . Because this might morph into a genepool question :grin:

David

It needs to morph into something.:grin:

 

[electricmanscott]

Here is the answer. Fill the tub with warm water, then place your two year old child or grandchild in the tub. Plug a radio into the outlet, turn it on and place it on the sink top. Then ask youself if that receptacle belongs there. Code or no code sometimes common sense is the answer.

Ban Him...Ban him...he is sick! :grin:

Receptacles are allowed right next to showertubstallsspace. In many bathrooms they are close enough to allow a radio to be plugged in and fall into the tub. In many bathrooms there is no choice but to have the recptacle there.

 

[electricmanscott]

Page after page after page of this thread and we still have someone falling back on the argument that the word "or" is an unbreachable barrier !

How about other examples of how the NEC uses the word ?or?. . Lets take 410.10(E).
?mercury vapor or metal halide lamps?. . Does the word ?lamp? only apply to metal halide ?
?glass or plastic lens?. . Does the word ?lens? only apply to plastic ?

Should I put electricmanscott down as not believing in mercury vapor lamps and glass lenses ? . It's the mythological OR barrier !

Bathtub stalls, mercury vapor lamps, glass lenses, Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy, Big Foot, Lochness Monster ... I guess none of them exist [well except maybe the Tooth Fairy].

This thread can go on forever and it wouldn't change the fact that an interpretation is involved. . Anybody that thinks this is a "slamdunk" either way is just fooling themself.

David

I seriously don't know what the hell you are talking about, but I do know there is no bathtub stall.