Briant Panels

[inspector23]

I don't see where relocating a couple breakers would even involve an electrical inspection, this is up to the contractor to make the determination about the condition of the existing panel, would not involve a electrical inspeciton unless he changes the panel or the power was disconnected by the utility

You are absolutely right. This probably would not involve an inspection unless the panel was changed. My initial response, some 30-odd posts ago, was simply to let Marc know that my jurisdiction, when it is brought to our attention, does not allow covering up the damaged bus fingers.

We don't go looking over the shoulders of the service Sparky's. If they come in for a permit, fine. We now know about it. About the only other time we would catch it is in case of a fire. When the fire department is called out and pulls a meter, an inspector has to go out and verify it is safe before the the meter can be re-installed.

 

[1793]

Someting like this...

Someting like this...

...The inspector said he had never seen one do like that and when I told him they never tripped he could not believe it and wanted to keep the 50 amp for his collection.
Has any one ran across this with Briant panels? By the way this panel was installed some where in the early 70's. If I could figure out how to post pix I would.

Look something like this?

 

[monkey]

Wow quite a thread. Being located in the Arizona desert, I have the good fortune of seeing this quite regularly. They are ALWAYS the brands Marc mentioned, with Siemens/Murray being the most common. I even started a thread on it last year.

They are also always damaged beyond repair, usually no one notices anything till the whole panel melts down.

And they are almost always jammed full with twins and quads, no spare stabs anyway.

Out here, the air conditioning can be a continous load in the older homes with poor insulation.

I wonder how the Cutler Hammer BR series will hold up? After all, they are Bryants aren't they?

 

[ceb]

When I started this thread all I really wanted to know was had any one else ran across this problem with Briant panels before. Not long into the thread Marc (md shunk) had me thinking he was a hack working out of the back of a station wagon and inspector23 was my new hero. I know that Marc is NOT a hack and he was making an observation with out seeing the damage that I physically saw and I agree with him, had it just been a small arc on the bar I would have done as he suggested. However, this situation called for following 110.12(c) the homeowner was standing their when I pulled the breaker and it fell into pieces, the homeowner saw the same thing I saw and knew that #1 they were lucky the house did not burn, and #2 the panel needed replacing. I do not condemn panels just to make the swap as implied they ask a price for the change, I gave them one, can you do it tomorrow? As for inspector23 yes stick to those guns as long as you can back your self with code then you have have done your job. As a EC I may not like the answer but if you can back it up I respect that. For the Glock jokes I take offence in them also I am a Browning man.

 

[ceb]

Look something like this?

That was one of the good ones.

 

[inspector23]

For the Glock jokes I take offence in them also I am a Browning man.

In those immortal words of Larry the Cable Guy - "Now I don't care who you are - that's funny right there!":grin:

 

[LarryFine]

I, too, have seen more than my share of burned-away stabs and fried breakers, not only branch-circuit breakers, but also the double-wide main breakers that plug directly onto the top two stabs, and it always seems to be the "B" phase, the second stab, the right bus, that burns.

Am I the only one who replaces the guts, and not the enclosure, when possible? Also, the guts can often be flipped over to place the burned stabs at the bottom, as long as you have less than a full panel, and you still replace the main breaker on the virgin stabs.

 

[paul]

Am I the only one who replaces the guts, and not the enclosure, when possible?

Nope. The last one I did, a QO loadcenter, I did just that. Although the bussing was toast because it was in a pool room with the chlorine, not because of heat damage.

 

[chris kennedy]

What is the actual cause of this? Is it not enough holding force and contact area between the finger and the CB contacts? Am I to understand it is strictly a design issue (manufacturer defaect)?

I have seen many and often the buss was the victim of over spray from the surrounding wall. (latex paint/primer and or drywall texture)

 

[mdshunk]

Since I've already admitted that blanking off a breaker slot with a bad buss finger is a violation, I have a simple question. Does anyone care to offer why they feel allowing a damaged buss finger (not the buss proper or the fish paper) to remain is such an earth shattering hazard? Don't tell me "because someone might put a breaker in there some day", because that's a load of crap. I'm wondering about a real reason why an abandoned damaged buss finger would ever present a hazard?

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

Since I've already admitted that blanking off a breaker slot with a bad buss finger is a violation, I have a simple question. Does anyone care to offer why they feel allowing a damaged buss finger (not the buss proper or the fish paper) to remain is such an earth shattering hazard? Don't tell me "because someone might put a breaker in there some day", because that's a load of crap. I'm wondering about a real reason why an abandoned damaged buss finger would ever present a hazard?

My only answer to this is: what caused the problem? If it's defective equipment (possibly panel construction? I don't know...) it's not inconceivable that it will happen again to the same panel. It's disappointing to hear that it happens so frequently. I mean this is a fire hazard and manufactures of residential electrical equipment need to be forced to make quality products that are proven to not fail.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

No, that assumption is not, and was not, the intent of the joke at all. When it began, it was a joke about "sticking to your guns" and enforcing the requirements of your job as an inspector when you are getting hammered on, (much like this thread!:grin: ) with the old excuse of "we have always done it that way" and "everyone else does it this way," you don't like me", etc.

It's August. It's hot. It's Friday. It's time to unwind. It's also not a big deal to me. It was an attempt at humor, which I sprinkle on my views of life and my professional career. So you did not find it humorous. I fail to see the humor in that band leader on David Letterman. Life goes on. However, since Jay Leno has not returned my calls, I shall quit using the Glock jokes and search for new material references......

This is not life or death. This is an avenue for a variey of people to respectfully express their views on a variety of electrical issues. And yes, I used the word respectfully , even with the Glock references. I have no control over what is taken out of context by anyone.

I would suggest we all take a deep breath, turn down our sensitivity meters, and enjoy the weekend!

Thanks for your view, and the Glock references are over. But I'm still going to "stick to my guns" on the OP and my initial response to Marc about covering up the damaged bus fingers.

Very mature response. Incidentally I agree with your position in this thread. I also agree 100% on sticking to your guns. No one is ever harmed from the inspector doing his job properly.

 

[ceb]

dont know if this will work

 

[jetlag]

not the panel

not the panel

I think every one is to quick to point finger at panel box, The breaker gets loose and arcs to ruin the buss. It doesnt matter what brand box it is. I noticed that seimems fit most any box with same type breaker but they are not really tight when pushed in a S D homeline , the homeline breakers are much tighter. It is very often that the wire is not tight and causes the same problem. By the time the breaker fails its hard to tell that it started with a loose connection. Got a service call the other day with breaker tripping to dryer. The breaker was hot when it would trip. Checking i found when the #8 alum was installed to breaker, they fail to get about a third of the strands under the lug. It was tight but was heating up because the unattached strands reduced the ampacity of the wire. I cut wire back and reattached, no more problems.