Brick Tie nail in 4/0 SER

[scwirenut]

customarily the framers install the brick ties for a couple reasons, one is so the inspector can see that there ARE brick ties at RI inspection, second is so they dont hit a wire after rough in, the nails are close to 3 inches long and nail plates on the outside is not practical, primarily because most of the damage happens when they miss a stud and hit a wire running down the side. I never see a house w/o brick ties installed b4 me other than with HO's.

 

[augie47]

No question the cable has to be replaced or it's a "cocked gun" waiting to fire. I would be meeting with the homeowner ASAP and telling him that after study and discussion you can not leave the cable energized.

 

[LarryFine]

Wirenut, I agree with every other response. This service should not even be energized until the cable is replaced.

Remind the homeowner that a house fire is much more inconvenient than whatever it takes to repair this damage.

 

[480sparky]

Wirenut, I agree with every other response. This service should not even be energized until the cable is replaced.

Remind the homeowner that a house fire is much more inconvenient than whatever it takes to repair this damage.

Replace inconvenient with costly.

Maybe their HO insurance will pony up for some of it.

 

[macmikeman]

Step one when firing up the first time on a new job is go turn off all breaker loads downstream of the main so light bulbs are not detected by mistake. Take out wiggy and test from one of the hot bars upstream of the main to the load side(s) of the main (kids, 480 volts and below with that wiggy ok?). Feel and read any voltage - then go find out why before turning on that main breaker. After that I check the panel the same way, except for light circuits, cause they will allow the wiggy to wiggle from the lamp filiaments. I have detected nail penetrations this way in the past, without having to "see fire shoot out of the breaker".

 

[TOOL_5150]

You told the HO to have the framers install what?

I am assuming the brick ties.

~Matt

 

[ibew441dc]

Turned on power, Main breaker shooting fire, tracked down to this this nail at the top plate, it ended up puncturing both phases and neutral.
I told the HO to make the framers install these before I wired, I guess the brickies thought more was needed after I left.

I cut the nail and backed it out. everything booted back up ok, HO said not to replace it (based on quote from me and the patch/paint guys)

what do you guys think?

http://s138.photobucket.com/albums/q272/RPElectric/?action=view&current=03-24-09_1206.jpg

The HO is fo sho not even qualified to determine whether it is safe or not.....thats what he hired you for.

If you leave it like this, you might as well put a blind fold on the HO and hold his hand to the free way. When you get there give him a gentle push and tell him he will make it across, just because the HO thinks its safe. Meanwhile you know what will be the result sooner or later.

I think you have enough common sense and probably agree with everyone here that it is no good.

 

[e57]

If you can not pry the money out of the guy - I say start documenting the living bejesus out of it, and ask your AHJ where the 'release of liabilty' gets filed. Not that they have such a place - but it may wake them up to the fact that they need to step in for you.

 

[ivsenroute]

Where was the required protector plate(s) for this install?

 

[glene77is]

...so they dont hit a wire after rough in ...

Replace the damaged cable.
Invoice somebody!
BTW, how is your insurance?

 

[jrannis]

I would print this entire post and hand it to the homeowner.
Do you have a pic of the nail you pulled out?

 

[ceknight]

what do you guys think?

I wouldn't have touched the nail. I would've pulled the meter, called the PoCo, and had them force the issue.

Besides, I'm willing to bet the insurance adjuster, inspector, and bricklayer boss would be a lot more interested in that nail while it was still in place.

But I know, it's too late for that.

 

[electricmanscott]

I wouldn't have touched the nail. I would've pulled the meter, called the PoCo, and had them force the issue.

What do they have to do with anything here? :-?

 

[electricmanscott]

Just looked at the picture again. Forgive me if this was already brought up. Was the cable properly protected fromm nail penetration?

Looks like it goes through a plate of some sort. The size of the hole being almost out to the edge and the size of the cable running through should require a nail plate to be installed .

EDIT: Just saw that this was brought up in the thread. So what's the answer? Where was the nailplate? Was there one?

 

[kbsparky]

... Was the cable properly protected fromm nail penetration.... Where was the nailplate? Was there one?...

Umm it's really not practical to install a nail plate on the back side of the studs when one roughs in the wiring, since the exterior sheathing is already in place.

This is why it is essential to have all the exterior siding or strapping installed before the rough wiring is installed, and I believe the OP stated this earlier in the thread.

 

[electricmanscott]

Umm it's really not practical to install a nail plate on the back side of the studs when one roughs in the wiring, since the exterior sheathing is already in place.

This is why it is essential to have all the exterior siding or strapping installed before the rough wiring is installed, and I believe the OP stated this earlier in the thread.

UMM maybe it would be more practical than having a nail penetrate a 200 amp feeder.

What article requires cable protection only when practical again? I can't seem to find that one.

 

[George Stolz]

What article requires cable protection only when practical again? I can't seem to find that one.

Back to reality here, Scott. You install nailplates on the outside of a wall? How would you find the right spot to nail it on? I suppose you could drive a nail through the wall to the exterior, and stack a couple nailplates above the marker. I wouldn't expect them to stay, IMO.

Obviously, the hole probably could have favored the interior side of the wall more, but with a 200A feeder, even with that the precious 1.25" is sometimes hard to come by.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Back to reality here, Scott. You install nailplates on the outside of a wall? How would you find the right spot to nail it on? I suppose you could drive a nail through the wall to the exterior, and stack a couple nailplates above the marker. I wouldn't expect them to stay, IMO.

Obviously, the hole probably could have favored the interior side of the wall more, but with a 200A feeder, even with that the precious 1.25" is sometimes hard to come by.

George,
Yes, I know that it is very rare to have a nail plate on the exterior side, but the code requires it if the cable is less than 1 1/4". I guess the only answer for exterior walls is to use a wiring method that does not require the use of additional protection.

 

[ceknight]

What do they have to do with anything here? :-?

When I yank a meter in an emergency, I call National Squid ASAP to cover my butt. When their crew responds, I'd just show them the nail and let them be the ones who refuse to re-energize until it's repaired.

What I'm sure of is this: I would not touch that nail unless I was also hired to repair the damage.

 

[al hildenbrand]

. . . I guess the only answer for exterior walls is to use a wiring method that does not require the use of additional protection.

LOL

You old rabble rouser!
:smile:
Seriously, when I encounter this type of install after the rough frame has been sheathed, I'll take a blank plate and drive it into the crack between the sheathing and plate.