Burned up outlet

[thxmike]

I would check you state's enforcement of code on contractors. In California it is 10 years for negligence, no matter what you contract says. (That is for negligence only, not a complete waranty of your work.)

 

[360Youth]

The reason it didn't burn the house is because it was properly installed with JB and all. However it is quite obvious that they did not tighten the screw.

See now, if the EC would have just stabbed in the back...:grin:

 

[Minuteman]

See now, if the EC would have just stabbed in the back...:grin:

Oh no, not another backstabbing EC!

 

[cschmid]

In mn it used to be 10 yrs it is now 2 years and I am sure a good lawyer could draw you in even after that...it is so important to keep accurate records..so if home owner changed out the devices you could show they were different devices. Unless he used the same device..

 

[Minuteman]

To be honest guys, this probably won't make it to court. My daughter is a claims adjuster for a major insurance company. They pay out tons of money for claims that was for poor workmanship.

One would have to prove "criminal neglect" or "malicious intent" before it would get past a defense attorney. (I almost said a "good" defense attorney, but realized that it was an oxymoron). :grin:

 

[cschmid]

lol liars oops lawyers....I thought we were discussing if you had a fire and your house burned down due to an electrical installtion error.. I really doubt someone would turn in a repair for an outlet..

 

[chevyx92]

One would have to prove "criminal neglect" or "malicious intent" before it would get past a defense attorney. (I almost said a "good" defense attorney, but realized that it was an oxymoron). :grin:

I seriously doubt that. What if the house had burned down and people died and the result was because of that outlet? I would bet that EC would be held accountable in a court of law and not have to prove criminal or malicious intent. JMO though.

 

[iwire]

I seriously doubt that. What if the house had burned down and people died and the result was because of that outlet? I would bet that EC would be held accountable in a court of law and not have to prove criminal or malicious intent. JMO though.

IMO it is unlikely, there are thousands of electrical fires every year and many people die as a result.

Regardless of that we hear of very few ECs doing jail time, remember criminal court requires 'beyond a shadow of a doubt' (or something like that) and the fact that others had access to the wiring pretty much gives that doubt.

There is always civil court which has a lower standard to meet.

There was an person here in MA that got jailed for a death from some wiring but there was more to it, if I recall there was a long history of trouble with this person. I think they had been a licensed EC that lost his license due to complaints and kept right on wiring with a death resulting.

All that said....who cares about courts....I don't want someones death on my conscience.

 

[Minuteman]

I would bet that EC would be held accountable in a court of law and not have to prove criminal or malicious intent. JMO though.

I said criminal neglect. Criminal intent is a whole other can-o-worms.

All that said....who cares about courts....I don't want someones death on my conscience.

My thought exactly!

 

[mkgrady]

If a suit is filed the plaintiffs lawyer would try to convince a jury the EC caused the fire. The EC's defense lawyer would try to convince a jury there was no neglegence or if there was any it occurred after the EC finished the work. This would be a case with a battle between expert witnesses fighting for each side. The jury decides if the plaintiff has proved neglegence.

For those who think this kind of mistake (not tightening a screw terminal) could happen to any EC you are right but it is surely a neglegent act.

 

[chevyx92]

All that said....who cares about courts....I don't want someones death on my conscience.

The homeowner of a burned down house would probably care. This question arose after I let them in on why it the outlet burned up. I gave them my opinion and was curious as to others here.

 

[cschmid]

you know the way I see it happening is Home owners insurance company sue EC insurance company for cost of house. Home owner wins and EC has to get another company to insure them...

 

[macmikeman]

Let's see.. you find yourself sitting in a courtroom, there is a jury of 12 "peers" and the opposing council is making you out to be a neglegent type of contractor because of the screw fire, and all the slightly crooked faceplates they also found when they sent in a forsenic engineer. (if there is a loose screw someplace, garantee they will find some other stuff wrong before they leave the site) Which way do you think the jury is going to go with this- you or the sad poor homeowner who has lost his house and his poor cat Fido to the fire. Better hire a damn good attorney.

 

[iaov]

Lawyers and pig tails

Lawyers and pig tails

That picture makes a good argument for pigtailing those connections. If there was a high amperage device on this circuit, pig tailing those neutrals would have prevented the elcheapo receptical from being part of the current path and burning up.

 

[cschmid]

wow what an excuse to pig tail..I have been doing that for a long time.. now I have a legal reason; it is for liability issues..thanks man...

 

[Minuteman]

Even if you pigtail, if a screw is left un-tightened, there is still going to be a problem.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Even if you pigtail, if a screw is left un-tightened, there is still going to be a problem.

Yes but it will be only at that receptacle and might get noticed faster if it flashes or starts making an arc noise.It will posabbly even cause no problem with a very small load

 

[cschmid]

when the outlet is not part of the direct path it should poss les of a problem..I do all my outlets this way..This is where I work live, is changing outlet so I do not have to plan large outages to change an outlet that is wore out due to the janitors pulling there vacuum cords out by jerking on the cords..

 

[jango]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but that appears to be 12 Ga wire (presumably on a 20 amp ct.) and a 15A rated receptacle with the conductors tied down on the screw terminals for 'feed-thru'. That receptacle is not rated for 20A feed-thru and therefore those conductors should have been spliced with wire nuts with one pigtail each for the hot and neut. going to the receptacle screw terminals???

 

[haskindm]

I believe that most (if not all) 15-amp receptacles are rated for 20-amp feed through.