We spend a lot of money on car insurance and homeowner's insurance despite the fact that the from the individual's perspective the probability of needing it is low.
A lot of people would not buy homeowner's or car insurance except for the coercion from third parties like governments and mortgage lenders. It has little to do with the perceived risk from the buyer's perspective.
Even mortgage lenders will let you off the hook for mortgage insurance if your equity is over 20%. As for contents, they don't care what you lose. And they still expect you to pay the mortgage, even if it burns to the foundation. It's surely your choice, but I wouldn't go without it.
Batteries and inverters. Pay attention.
Not real practical or economical
Since they are economically impossible, they don't seem real practical. Why not just make up de fake solution and advocate it?
It's not economically impossible. Economically impossible would be something like "it would cost more than the GDP expected between now and 2045, even allowing for plausible future R+D and economies of scale." It's way less than that.
And that is my point, actually. Left to themselves the providers of natural gas will never protect their wells from the cold because they are willing to take the risk and it's only their own risk they are concerned about. We are "coerced" into buying car insurance not for our own personal protection but for the economic protection of everyone else on the road.
The graph I shared post 25 proves it's not only possible, it's being done. Why make statements that are so obviously hyberbolic? Frankly, I think you're just trolling.
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I think it's a pretty fair dart. Now, add in replacement of solar panels at 20-30 years, so double that portion of the infrastructure cost, because you can easily get 60 years out of a combined cycle gas plant.There is enough grid scale battery capacity currently online that we can make reasonable projections as to the costs of a grid supplied by non-dispatchable sources such as solar and wind. Not cheap but not impossible.
Not doing deep checking and just grabbing numbers that look reasonable off the internet (eg. lower quality than WikiPedia
4 hour rated grid scale battery storage costs $1400 per kW capacity https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy21osti/79236.pdf
natural gas costs between $700 and $1200 per kW capacity
solar PV costs about $2600 per kW capacity
https://www.eia.gov/analysis/studies/powerplants/capitalcost/pdf/capcost_assumption.pdf
So a battery is more expensive than natural gas, and can only run for a few hours before it is depleted. PV is also more expensive than natural gas, and has much lower capacity utilization. But now we have enough information for round numbers.
Assume that to supply enough PV energy you need 4x the capacity of your natural gas system, and that to load shift you need 12 hours of battery capacity. So for each kW of natural gas you would need 4 kW of solar capacity and 3kW of battery storage.
In very rough round numbers if you wanted to tear everything down and replace it with solar and battery it would cost perhaps 10x the cost to do the same with natural gas.
The above analysis is _very_ crude, and I am sure any number of this group could rip huge holes in it. I'm just throwing a dart to get a handle on where reality is between 'of course we can do it but it will cost a bit more' to 'so expensive as to be impossible'.
-Jon
Sure, now subtract the fuel savings, and subtract the climate damage avoided over 60 years.
Easy part there, $0. No one can quantify, or even attribute "climate damage" of any sort to burning fossil fuels. And before you start, we are NOT talking about the directly noxious products of combustion like SOx and NOx.
No one can quantify it except it's zero. Riiiight.
Read more closely. If nothing can be attributed, damages are $0.No one can quantify it except it's zero. Riiiight.
That is false, but as the OP was about technical issues, not economics, we can leave that disagreement aside and consider other aspects of the question.
Good, then stop adding it to every PV thread and I won't call you out on it.
