Can romex condcutors be installed in emt?

[Barndog]

All grounds count towards fill, not just as one.

Grounds count as one in BOX fill not conduit fill. which i never understood that how you can count all the grounds as one wire in box fill but i guess that would be another topic!!!!!

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Grounds count as one in BOX fill not conduit fill. which i never understood that how you can count all the grounds as one wire in box fill but i guess that would be another topic!!!!!

I am confused.. Are you agreeing with Trevor or not?

 

[Barndog]

I am confused.. Are you agreeing with Trevor or not?

i am saying you must count all ground wires in conduit not just as one wire. but he might have got confused with Box fill. I just never understood why you only count the grounds once for box fill purposes. that never made sense to me.

 

[goldstar]

I have occassionally wondered why some enterprising NM manufacturer does not put THWN conductors labeled as such inside the sheath so that the sheath could be removed and the conductors used for finishing runs going outside.

It all has to do with manufacturing $$$.

 

[goldstar]

just use pvc for the sleeve then dont worry about grounding the emt

I agree, but the OP specifically mentioned EMT.:roll:

 

[Dennis Alwon]

i am saying you must count all ground wires in conduit not just as one wire. but he might have got confused with Box fill. I just never understood why you only count the grounds once for box fill purposes. that never made sense to me.

I think that was what Trevor was saying. That's why I was confused.

 

[petersonra]

Competition is rough. If you want to sell 250' of 14/3 for $70 ur gonna do it cheap! which means no printing on individual wires. It isn't required...

I can't imagine that the extra cost to print the individual wires would make any real difference in the end cost. We are talking about extra pennies per thousands of feet.

Besides, wouldn't that make for a minor competitive edge for someone that did it that way?

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

I can't imagine that the extra cost to print the individual wires would make any real difference in the end cost. We are talking about extra pennies per thousands of feet.

Besides, wouldn't that make for a minor competitive edge for someone that did it that way?

No market for it. What percentage of Romex gets stripped of it's cover? And of THAT percentage what percentage is gonna be called out by the inspector? I've done it maybe 4-5 times in all the cable I've installed and NEVER been questioned about it...

Think about it. Inspectors are used to seeing the cover ending at the panel entrance and having 2-3 feet of unidentified wire in the panel...

 

[goldstar]

I can't imagine that the extra cost to print the individual wires would make any real difference in the end cost. We are talking about extra pennies per thousands of feet.

Besides, wouldn't that make for a minor competitive edge for someone that did it that way?

I know it seems odd that mfr's couldn't just take the time out to run the conductors through a machine and put ID's on the each conductor but the fact is that it adds cost to the manufacturing process. Besides, if you could just stirp off the jacket of an RX cable you could then use those conductors inside a fixture whip, maybe to an AC unit. Why would the mfr's do that when in reality they could just force you to buy a few rolls of THHN (because the NEC dictates) and make another sale. You have to think as wierd as they do to understand the maddness.:roll:

 

[iwire]

So if 310.11 requires the NM labeling to remain on in raceway where is the permission to remove that same labeling at a panel?

 

[infinity]

The code allows fifteen # 12 conductors in 3/4 emt. I will have 8, plus two #14 conductors . All grounds count as 1 . Thus 15 conductors total.

All grounds count towards fill, not just as one.

I think that was what Trevor was saying. That's why I was confused.

Yes, that is what I was saying. The original statement was that the EGC's count as only one conductor within the EMT which is incorrect.

BTW, when installing RX directly into EMT you will need this type fitting :http://www.bptfittings.com/Catalog/CatalogFamily.aspx?CategoryId=33&FamilyId=381 . The EMT will also have to be grounded at some point so, I'm assuming that you'll be terminating it at the breaker panel in which case the lock-nut and set screw fittings will accomplish this. If you had planned on just using the EMT as a sleeve and not terminating it at either end then you will have to find some way to ground the EMT.

Where does it say that sleeves require grounding?

 

[goldstar]

Where does it say that sleeves require grounding?

Don't all metal parts of any electrical system have to be grounded ? 250.80

 

[petersonra]

So if 310.11 requires the NM labeling to remain on in raceway where is the permission to remove that same labeling at a panel?

because a panel is not a raceway?

 

[iwire]

because a panel is not a raceway?

I see nothing in 310.11 that limits its requirements to raceways.

 

[petersonra]

I see nothing in 310.11 that limits its requirements to raceways.

That was not the question you asked though.

If I had looked it up, I would have realized that the question you asked was not what you really meant.

It would appear that as long as the marking is within 24 inches of the end of the cable, that it complies, even if the jacket is stripped off.

I am not sure this requirement applies to the installation though. It seems like it is more of a product specification.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Read 300.10 Exception #1

300.10 Electrical Continuity of Metal Raceways and Enclosures.
Metal raceways, cable armor, and other metal enclosures for conductors shall be metallically joined together into a continuous electrical conductor and shall be connected to all boxes, fittings, and cabinets so as to provide effective electrical continuity. Unless specifically permitted elsewhere in this Code, raceways and cable assemblies shall be mechanically secured to boxes, fittings, cabinets, and other enclosures.
Exception No. 1: Short sections of raceways used to provide support or protection of cable assemblies from physical damage shall not be required to be made electrically continuous.
Exception No. 2: Equipment enclosures to be isolated, as permitted by 250.96(B), shall not be required to be metallically joined to the metal raceway.

 

[goldstar]

- Short sections of raceways used to provide support or protection of cable assemblies from physical damage shall not be required to be made electrically continuous.

Good find Dennis but how short is short ? 1', 2' 3' 10' ?

 

[iwire]

I am not sure this requirement applies to the installation though. It seems like it is more of a product specification.

That is exactly my thought as well but one that few people seem to share.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Good find Dennis but how short is short ? 1', 2' 3' 10' ?

Who knows? I believe if you sleeve nm done a wall and you need 10' between floors then I say you're good but.... That's my opinion.

 

[jetlag]

We have gone thru this scenario before and it seems that the ambient temp for the breaker is not an issue.

I ran a thread on this a while back and the replies were I could not put the panel in the attic because of the heat. Do you remember it ?