Celisus vs Farenheit

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John120/240

Senior Member
Location
Olathe, Kansas
Why did we go with celisus for tempature factors ? Everybody knows 98.6,

32, 212. We can all relate to these farenheit tempatures. We never adopted

the meter, liter, kilometer at least not in wide use.
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
Why did we go with celisus for tempature factors ? Everybody knows 98.6,

32, 212. We can all relate to these farenheit tempatures. We never adopted

the meter, liter, kilometer at least not in wide use.

I'm from UK and and quite old so I was taught Imperial units at school - feet, inches, pounds etc. and I'm still quite conversant with them.
But, for engineering including electrical engineering, SI (metric) units usually make calculations simpler.
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
It's very frustrating to have both units in America. I wish we would just switch to metric ,it's so much easier! I was just helping my 3rd grader yesterday on homework and he knew 100 C boiling and 0 C for freezing but not 32 and 212 F. What does that tell you?
Maybe that 32F for the freezing point seems a little arbitary or illogical or maybe just a tad archaic?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit
Using 0degC for the freezing point of water rather than a mixture of brine has some merits. Water is quite important to us. More so than a brine mixture - see link. Below zero and it's ice. Frost, snow, frozen pipes and windscreens are not really convenient. With centigrade or Celsius, negative values are below freezing and positive values are above freezing. Seems simple.

On your more general point about metric being easier, yes it is in my view. Part of this is because the multiples and sub-multiples of units are based on the decimal system. In the electrical field we are all familiar with the unit of power, the Watt, the kW, and the MW. Multiples of 1, 1000, 1,000,000.
For length or distance you have the metre, mm, km etc.
By contrast, a mile is 1,760 yards, 5,280 feet and 63,360 inches.
Pounds, ounces, tons......

But there is more to it than that. The metric (SI) units hang together quite well.
On power, one Volt times one Amp is one Watt. (Note that this is an instantaneous value.)
For Imperial, one HP = 33,000 ft-lb/minute.
One litre of water weighs one kg. A cubic metre is one tonne (metric ton).

The SI unit for energy is the Joule. It is one Watt for one second. Or a force of one Newton for one metre. That ties in mechanical energy and electrical energy.
Or, for power, one Watt is one Nm/s.

Obviously, you can convert using one HP = 746W.
But why would anyone want to if there is an existing integrated systems of units?
 

Strife

Senior Member
I grew up with metric.
Both metric and imperial (fractional) are just as easy once you learn them.
True, imperial takes a little longer to sink in, but once it sink in that is half of half of half it can be easier than metric for some things.
Do you have problems with the 12/60/60 set up of clocks? I'm sure you don't.

I'm from UK and and quite old so I was taught Imperial units at school - feet, inches, pounds etc. and I'm still quite conversant with them.
But, for engineering including electrical engineering, SI (metric) units usually make calculations simpler.
 

peter

Senior Member
Location
San Diego
For the most part, the metric system is better. But, as for temperature, the fahrenheit system is preferable because it uses a smaller unit than the centigrade system. One degree centigrade is almost two degrees fahrenheit.
Since we now use American units, I think it wise that the Code should get rid of the metric system and use the American system.
~Peter
 

tom baker

First Chief Moderator
Staff member
For the most part, the metric system is better. But, as for temperature, the fahrenheit system is preferable because it uses a smaller unit than the centigrade system. One degree centigrade is almost two degrees fahrenheit.
Since we now use American units, I think it wise that the Code should get rid of the metric system and use the American system.
~Peter

The NEC uses SI units not American. Conduit is called out as metric designators. We ignore the SI and read the parens information. The NEC adopted the SI units a few cycles ago and its not going away.
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
I grew up with metric.
Both metric and imperial (fractional) are just as easy once you learn them.
True, imperial takes a little longer to sink in, but once it sink in that is half of half of half it can be easier than metric for some things.
I think is does, or maybe did, have merit.
A foot being 12 inches means that a number of fractions of a foot (1/2, 1/3, 1/4, etc.) give whole numbers of inches. Maybe, now that calculators are cheap and in widespread use, that isn't as useful as at it might have been at one time.
Do you have problems with the 12/60/60 set up of clocks? I'm sure you don't.
I don't. Clocks and watches here with an analogue display are all a 12-hour format. Big Ben and all that......
 

handy10

Senior Member
More metric

More metric

In addition to the reasons favoring metric that have been mentioned, another is the simple relation between the length dimension and area and volume. In English units, we are stuck with acres (what size square is has the area of an acre?) and gallons (how many gallons in a cubic foot?) Because acres and gallons are measures that were not originally related to feet and inches, the relations are more complex than most of us care to remember. As far as using decimal values, we usually prefer to choose a unit that is somewhat close to the object being measured. Most of us do not know our height in miles, for instance. Centimeters seem to me to be an easier unit than inches and a millimeter is much easier than a 1/16 th of an inch.
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
how many gallons in a cubic foot

I would have guessed around 8, but the Google calculator says 7.48. So I'll call that 7 1/2. The funny thing is, now I will remember that figure forever, just like I did for the acre. I also remember that 1 gal = 3.8 liters. That little fact is printed on urinals in the US.

Conversions come easy to me. I think it's because I have had to do math conversions since I was 14. That is when I got my first motorcycle, a Yamaha. Since I did my own repairs, I quickly had to go from metric to US and back. In the 70's, few people had metric tools. So we had to convert. 8mm = 5/16, 11mm = 7/16, 13mm = 1/2 and 14mm is close to 9/16 and 19mm = 3/4. Those were the most common. If you resolve down to the thirty second, every metric tool size has a US counterpart. I managed to find a 13/32 socket that fits a 10mm. 7mm = 9/32 is another, commonly used in automobile interiors.

Just as conversion is easy for some, it can be a nightmare for others.
 
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Open Neutral

Senior Member
Location
Inside the Beltway
Occupation
Engineer
Just as conversion is easy for some, it can be a nightmare for others.

A) The one that PO's me is the yellow tags on HVAC. Why in the world do they have BTU's and furlongs/fortnight? It's kw's in, kw's out. Percentage is all that's needed.

B) You want a mess? The ISS is half-metric, half SAE. So the Shuttle had to lift 2 sets of tools, at was it $1000/kg? Did they think it was a Volvo?

[1960-70's Volvos were metric, of course; except they had Lockheed brakes, and SU [British] carbs. (Most folks wrenching today are lucky enough to have never even heard of Whitworth.)
One irony is, today the most solidly metric industry we have in the US is Detroit!]
 

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
I would have guessed around 8, but the Google calculator says 7.48. So I'll call that 7 1/2. The funny thing is, now I will remember that figure forever, just like I did for the acre. I also remember that 1 gal = 3.8 liters. That little fact is printed on urinals in the US.
That's the US gallon.
The UK gallon is 4.55 litres and it weighs 10lb (pounds weight).
"A pint* of water weighs a pound and a quarter" I learned when I was quite young.
*The Imperial pint is 20oz compared to 16oz for the US pint.

Conversions come easy to me.
They do for me also and I think there are a couple of reasons for that.
The first is that I have been brought up with both. I have no problem in visualising a foot, an inch, a metre etc.
The second is that I'm both blessed and cursed with a memory for numbers. Some useful things and some pretty much irrelevant in everyday life.
I know the permittivity of fee space, for example, is 8.85*10^-12 F/m. I don't believe I have ever used it in real life. And what use is it to me to know that there ten chains in a furlong? Yet I do. I sometimes wonder about the capacity of the brain to absorb and retain such stuff. Is it taking up space that might be better used for more relevant/current stuff?
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