conduit bends

[cloudymacleod]

just bend it! and git er done

 

[Smart $]

A simple saying that I have learned and use in the class is:

Oscar Had A Heap Of Apples

The equates to;
The Sine of the angle is the result of the side Opposite divided by the Hypotenuse (Oscar Had)
The Cosine of the angle is the result of the side Adjacent divided by the Hypotenuse (A Heap)
The Tangent of the angle is the result of the side Opposite divided by the Adjacent (Of Apples)

This is why I asked the question I did after reading this post

That's regarding trigonometric functions, and tangent is the ratio of Y to X coordinates of a point on a circle whose center is at 0,0. Though that has it's basis in geometry also, the point of tangency I referred to is where a straight line intersects a circle at one point only. That point of intersection is the point of tangency. A tangent line to a circle is perpendicular to a radial line from the center of the circle to the point of tangency. In trigonometry, the radial line would be the hypotenuse.

 

[drg]

Bwahaaaaaaaaaa

Bwahaaaaaaaaaa

Bwahaaaaaaaaa.

 

[George Stolz]

just bend it! and git er done

I'm content at the moment with just figuring that out.

 

[tallgirl]

The radius and circumference are always directly related.

I like PI!!!

A given radius will always result in the same circumference, it has to or the radius must be variable.

Alright, I'm trying to follow along in the Home Edition without going out, buying a bender, and wasting a lot of money making scrap metal out of 3/4" tubing.

What, mathematically, is the "take-up" in relationship to the radius of the bender? Is it the arc length of the bend minus the radius? Is it the arc length for the radius of the bend?

I can figure conduit lengths out using trig, but when I try to translate that into "where do I put the stupid mark so I wind up with the bend I want to make?" my brain turns to mush.

 

[iwire]

What, mathematically, is the "take-up" in relationship to the radius of the bender?

I do not believe there is a direct relationship between the take up and the radius of a hand bender.

The take up of a hand bender has as much to do with the radius as the the place the bender maker places the arrow to start the bend.

 

[tallgirl]

I do not believe there is a direct relationship between the take up and the radius of a hand bender.

The take up of a hand bender has as much to do with the radius as the the place the bender maker places the arrow to start the bend.

Thanks -- that explains the brain mush.

I'm trying to figure out how to lay out a 2" offset using a pair of 22 1/2 degree angles, then a length of tubing, followed by an 8" offset using a pair of 30 degree angles and my brain won't let me.

 

[1793]

Thanks -- that explains the brain mush.

I'm trying to figure out how to lay out a 2" offset using a pair of 22 1/2 degree angles, then a length of tubing, followed by an 8" offset using a pair of 30 degree angles and my brain won't let me.

Check out this link. I'm sure I'll hear about this but, I would start with the 8" and then do the 2".

 

[tallgirl]

Check out this link. I'm sure I'll hear about this but, I would start with the 8" and then do the 2".

I've been staring at that website for days now and don't know how to translate any of that into how I stick the piece of conduit into the bender to get the bends in the correct location. I'd like to figure this bending stuff out before I return to New Orleans with the brilliant idea that sticking EMT in walls first is a great way to get people into their houses faster

And thanks for the tip -- I was going to start with the 2" offset first, then bend the 8" offset.

 

[iwire]

I regularly bend conduit and I also find that site takes a relatively simple task and makes it rocket science.

I am not saying the site is not accurate only that in most circumstances you don't have to get into that deeply.

Once you start running rigid threaded it helps to know more as often with rigid you must thread first than do your bends so you must know how much conduit each bend will use up ( the developed length)

EMT on the other hand is a breeze.

 

[1793]

I've been staring at that website for days now and don't know how to translate any of that into how I stick the piece of conduit into the bender to get the bends in the correct location. I'd like to figure this bending stuff out before I return to New Orleans with the brilliant idea that sticking EMT in walls first is a great way to get people into their houses faster

And thanks for the tip -- I was going to start with the 2" offset first, then bend the 8" offset.

There had been a discussion on this somewhere her before. This level, No-Dog, is kind of nice but I found it did take a few bends to get the hang of its use.

I hope this helps and good luck.

 

[tallgirl]

EMT on the other hand is a breeze.

That's what I hope to prove.

The problem I'm trying to solve is getting something into the walls so the sheetrock or plaster can go on (since that doesn't require a license to do), then the wires can go in later. The issue is going to be which steps require a licensed electrician, which require some form of supervision, and which can be done by volunteers trained to do various steps. If anyone knows the answers to all those questions, a PM would be very welcomed.

 

[Rockyd]

Tallgirl,

My best recommendation to you for EASY pipe bending is two books that talk in simple english. The first, and one of the most valuable, get a copy of "UGLY'S Electrical References", by George V. Hart. Second, and a complete explanation to conduit bending only (and more than you'll ever care to know)- "Electricians Guide to Conduit Bending" by Richard A. Cox.

Ugly's can be found everywhere (even in Home Depot).

The other, you may have to get from Barnes & Noble, or an industry specialty store on order.

Other than that, start getting some miles of pipe ran, and a feel for your benders. Good luck on your projects.

PS Might want to get a Benfield bender if your shopping...otherwise, any ol' Ideal will work for small benders.

 

[1793]

I thought of this link as well for the Offset level.

Grainger

 

[tallgirl]

There had been a discussion on this somewhere her before. This level, No-Dog, is kind of nice but I found it did take a few bends to get the hang of its use.

I hope this helps and good luck.

Thank for the pointer. My plan was to make a jig out of plywood for two different "parts". The first "part" would be something like a standard receptacle outlet piece of tubing. The second "part" would be something like a switch for a lighting outlet (heh). The first offset is for a 4" square box, back to a stud. The second offset is for penetrating the ceiling plate between two studs on a wall framed 16" on-center since there should be no ceiling joists between studs. The distance between the two offsets would be two different values, one for receptacle outlets mounted 12" above the floor and another for wall-mounted switches. This plywood jig would be used to verify that the tubing was bent correctly for those two different applications.

As I wrote in my response to Bob, my next mission is finding out how much of this requires what level of supervision according to the folks in New Orleans. The goal is reducing the amount of time a licensed electrician has to actually do actual work or provide supervision. If I can write a cookbook I think a lot of the preparation work could be done by the homeowner -- drilling holes in precisely determined locations in preparation for the EC and crew to show up and stuff full of pieces-parts.

 

[celtic]

I've been staring at that website for days now and don't know how to translate any of that into how I stick the piece of conduit into the bender to get the bends in the correct location.

Tallgirl,
did you check the GreenLee links I gave previously?
Sometimes a different explaination of the same task helps....

....that being said....

...here are some MORE ways to make a pretzel:

This is an [Evans Offset Bender]

Some might consider it "cheating" - it does take a lot of the math out the equation (LOL).

This is a [ Burkey Bender]

Cheat...yes.

GreenLee 1818

GreenLee 1800

These are "Chicago Benders"...IMHO, the easiest way to make consistent bends with smaller size pipes.

 

[Bob NH]

The problem I'm trying to solve is getting something into the walls so the sheetrock or plaster can go on (since that doesn't require a license to do), then the wires can go in later. The issue is going to be which steps require a licensed electrician, which require some form of supervision, and which can be done by volunteers trained to do various steps. If anyone knows the answers to all those questions, a PM would be very welcomed.

I think that putting EMT in the wall is not going to save you time.

Someone could be nailing boxes to studs and drilling holes through the 2x4s. The licensed electrician can come along with a helper and string NM about as fast as they can pull wire through EMT.

If someone wants to get picky about it, I suspect that running EMT probably requires a license as well.

If I were trying to put pipe into walls, I would consider Sch 40 PVC. You can bend 1/2" PVC through holes a lot easier than you can run EMT in walls. You can also make bends with a little care using a heat gun.

 

[Rockyd]

Celtic,


That's my bender your using....No AC battery required to run that baby, just Pop-eye arms on 1-1/2" to track the clicks!

 

[celtic]

Celtic,


That's my bender your using....No AC battery required to run that baby, just Pop-eye arms on 1-1/2" to track the clicks!

The GreenLee models?


I love those things

Even when they "look" busted ~ they still work...if you know how to use 'em

 

[tallgirl]

I think that putting EMT in the wall is not going to save you time.

It's not about "time". It's about the way that having actual wires in the walls is a prerequisite for having sheetrock on the walls. Using conduit decouples the wires being in the walls from the hanging of sheetrock.

Someone could be nailing boxes to studs and drilling holes through the 2x4s. The licensed electrician can come along with a helper and string NM about as fast as they can pull wire through EMT.

If someone wants to get picky about it, I suspect that running EMT probably requires a license as well.

I think you're looking at it as a traditional job where an electrician has a helper or two and they go into a house for a day or two solid for rough and finish. Getting skilled trades people to donate more than an hour or three at a time is hard. It's not going to be a case of having an electrician who can bring in a helper and knock out a house.

The issue of whether or not running EMT requires a license is something that I know I have to look into. I'm hoping the answer is "No" so my group can teach people how to do that. We already have people who are competent at hanging and finishing sheetrock.