Customer theft

[weressl]

This came up elsewhere - figure it warrants it's own topic....

Say you're a Licensed Contractor - not big enough to go out on your own, or a JW looking to eventually go solo....

Anyone know of any specific law that says you can not solicit work from say an EC you are employed by???

Any specific to California?

Bigger question - how did to get your first job as an EC???? Steal a client from a one-time boss?

I think that the whole conversation is pre-biased by the use of word; stealing.

If you were treated right by your previous boss/employer you would not have left. He may have promoted you, offered partership, etc.

You left the employment because you have seen a better oppurtunity.

Offering competition to those whom you have acces to is one aspect of the fee market concept. Virtually every customer was somebody else's before they became your customer. What relationship that customer had with anybody is immaterial, unless one has a protectionist market structure. The customer is given choices and they are free to choose.

You may have business reasons to maintain or establish some sort of business realtionship with your previous employer or for anybody else for that matter, but neither moral or ethical obligation forces you to do that. Friendship and business do not mix, as the old adage says, and not only do they not mix but they don't belong to the same context. Business is business and if you remember that you'll be succesful.

 

[e57]

I guess I should say this again... Or am I getting paranoid about the use of 'you' and 'your' in the responses?

I will once again mention this is not something I am planning to do....

I started the thread from a conversation in a different thread that it was not related to....

 

[ultramegabob]

I guess I should say this again... Or am I getting paranoid about the use of 'you' and 'your' in the responses?

when I said "you" I was not refering to anyone specifically, the word "you" could be interchanged with "someone or anyone"...

 

[brian john]

You cannot CAN NOT do work of any kind that exceeds $500.00 total (mat and labor) without a contractors license in CA.

Yes you can, it may be illegal, BUT you laws on a book prevent this from happening?

You also cannot CAN NOT advertise to do work as an Electrican without a contractors license # in the AD. for more than $500.00

I assume you have never heard of Craig's List?

 

[c2500]

Silly me. I thought 'ownership' of other humans in this country was settled back in 1865.

.

Yes it was...the war of Northern Agression.

Just cutting up :grin: My HVAC guy is a yankee, originally from Puerto Rico, and we laugh about this alot.

c2500

 

[Power Tech]

You also cannot CAN NOT advertise to do work as an Electrican without a contractors license # in the AD. for more than $500.00





Are you sure a person cannot advertise. In my local newspaper there are lots of ads for electrical work and in the ad they state "not a licensed contractor". I would love to get this leftist rag called a paper fined. There was a contractor who got a lot of handymen fined and arrested. I thought the paper was going to call for a lynching.

 

[e57]

You also cannot CAN NOT advertise to do work as an Electrican without a contractors license # in the AD. for more than $500.00

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And the last is you are supposed to inactivate your license while being employeed by others (hourly) to further verify your income

You can advertise without a CL# - and you can also have a business license - but are not allowed by law to contract for any 'project' over $500 in time or material, or by bid - no matter how you break it up - that is abused consistantly...

As for inactivating your lic.... The only situations that I know of - and I have been known to be wrong lately - is in a "Joint Venture" (one lic needs to go inactive) or RME situation. However employees not as the qualifier for a company do not. And strangely - an RMO can serve in 3 companies so long as he owns 20% or more of each company. If you know a B&P code point to it - please.

 

[brian john]

We are a country of laws and every year we enact more and more laws. But unless someone is willing to enforce those laws they are only words on paper.

 

[Power Tech]

You can advertise without a CL# - and you can also have a business license - but are not allowed by law to contract for any 'project' over $500 in time or material, or by bid - no matter how you break it up - that is abused consistantly...

As for inactivating your lic.... The only situations that I know of - and I have been known to be wrong lately - is in a "Joint Venture" (one lic needs to go inactive) or RME situation. However employees not as the qualifier for a company do not. And strangely - an RMO can serve in 3 companies so long as he owns 20% or more of each company. If you know a B&P code point to it - please.

I do believe CA contractors law states you have to be a bonafide (serve at least 32 hours to RME / RMO) employee of the company. Could be wrong or it could have changed since I studied contractors law.

 

[hurk27]

Yes it was...the war of Northern Agression.

Just cutting up :grin: My HVAC guy is a yankee, originally from Puerto Rico, and we laugh about this alot.

c2500

Never knew they had Yankee's down there:roll:


There is no law, that can stop you from having customers who follow you from your last employer, there is no law that can stop you from working on your own time, and as far as these anti competition contracts, they are nothing but a scare tactic, just like signing off liability, in most states you can not sign off liability, it just makes the people think they can, and not want to sue. I have had my share of contractors threaten me with a law suit if I did any electrical work in their area, I would just dare them, and sit back and laugh. free commerce is free commerce, no one has the right to monopolizes an area, in fact it's against the Federal trade act.

That would be like telling me after spending my whole life in the electrical industry, that I can no longer do electrical work, because any electrical work would be competition:roll:

This whole thread is like my girl friend left me, but she is not allowed to go out with any one else because I own her, type of thing:roll:

People we live in a free country, we are not owned, we will not be owned, our time is our time not the bosses. when we are on the clock its a different story, but we are allowed to have as many jobs as we can handle, it's our choice.
I have walked from jobs that tried to control my time, if you want me to be on call and wait around the phone, it's going to cost you, I don't mind to be paid sitting at home, but you will pay! want me to answer the phone on my time, it will cost you if it is job related.

 

[e57]

Never knew they had Yankee's down there:roll:

Don't they go down there for off-season training, and there are a lot of other New Yorkers there too. :roll:

Anyway this thread is all about crapping where you eat, and the snacking one does between meals. While it may or may not be an ethical dilema - I am sure it is not a legal one.

 

[ultramegabob]

This whole thread is like my girl friend left me, but she is not allowed to go out with any one else because I own her, type of thing:roll:

I think this thread is more like if you were to stay at a buddies house and sit at his dinner table, then you started messing around with his wife. It may be legal, but it is a lowlife thing to do.

 

[nakulak]

I think this thread is more like if you were to stay at a buddies house and sit at his dinner table, then you started messing around with his wife. It may be legal, but it is a lowlife thing to do.

the assumption with this analogy is that you were buddies. consider a slightly different analogy, lets say you were an indentured slave to this guy, and you had the opportunity to run away with one or two of his mistresses and make a better life for yourself.

or how about this one: you are a runaway slave who made it to the other side, and you turn around, and here's most of your former master's harem following you and asking for your help.

my point is only this: its a case by case, and entirely individual situation. Don't be too quick to judge.

 

[srblx]

No laws here that say you can't do sidework, unless your employer spells it out in your agreement. though IMHO if someone is paying you a fair wage to do a job 1) it is disrespectful to him and his clients to do so. 2) this kinda puts you one notch above the robber that breaks into your house.

 

[bradleyelectric]

No laws here that say you can't do sidework, unless your employer spells it out in your agreement. though IMHO if someone is paying you a fair wage to do a job 1) it is disrespectful to him and his clients to do so. 2) this kinda puts you one notch above the robber that breaks into your house.

Your saying there is a law that says you can't do sidework if it is in an agreement?

 

[srblx]

after re-reading my post yes that is what it sounds like i said. Unfortuantley not quite what i meant. will do my best to clarify it with this post.

a former employer of mine had a standard agreement for employees on his payroll; that they could not bid on jobs he was bidding on if they were on his payroll. if it was a job he didn't want he had no problems with me doing sidework as long as it didn't intefere with my working for him. hope i explained this better.

 

[srblx]

wanted to ad that it was not a law but an employer,employee agreement

 

[480sparky]

wanted to ad that it was not a law but an employer,employee agreement

In a single word: contract.

 

[petersonra]

Every EC is selling to the same pool of potential customers.

If an employee is using his knowledge of your customer base to get side jobs w/o your permission, that smacks of unethical behavior, even if it is legal.

If he is no longer an employee, and especially if the customer is calling him, I think that shows you did not have the correct relationship with your customer in the first place. In many service type businesses, the customer's relationship is often with the business's employees rather than the business itself. Thats mostly not something you can do anything about.

I don't know how it is in other areas, but around here it is not unusual for contractors to farm out small jobs as side jobs to their employees, because the job is so small it is not worth it to the contractor to go after it.

 

[jaylectricity]

I have a couple customers from my old boss, but here were the circumstances:

1. A nice lady that he found "weird" for some reason and gave her my number. She has been an excellent customer. Very friendly, trusting, accommodating, and willing to pay me to just make the problem go away, whatever it is. He really dropped the ball on her.

2. A GC that couldn't get a hold of him, decided to call my old boss's old boss, couldn't get him out there and finally asked his helper who knew my cousin to get my phone number. (Small town) I did a couple jobs from him, a couple of them were inspected by my old boss's old boss. Not much problem with him, we still maintain a good relationship when I work in his town.

I also procured a one time customer from the helper I was paired with while working for a company. He didn't have time to drive down to Cape Cod. Of course when they asked me how much it was going to cost, they got a little scared. I was already in the middle of doing it. She expected to be paying about $30 an hour just like she was getting from the helper.

I explained to her that he could probably get away with that because he wasn't paying to be licensed and insured among other things. I felt bad that we hadn't settled on a price beforehand, so I made a deal with her. I told her that I would finish up the tasks I had open (fixture needed to be hung, conduit in place and holes in the wall for receptacle, etc.). I told her I had some liability and I couldn't just leave her house with unfinished electrical wiring. So all in all for about a day's work she paid about $600, of which I gave my helper $70 and probably $100 cash for materials.

I was actually fired from the EC I was working for when I was hooked up with that helper. His reason was, "I think you're more geared towards working for yourself, and not being my employee." Probably because I had talked to that customer while on his time, although I talked to her on my helper's company phone. The helper had been with the company for 5 years.