Fire Station & AFCI

[jxofaltrds]

ICC based:

"DWELLING. Any building or portion of a building that contains one or more dwelling units used, intended, or designed to be built, used, rented, leased, let or hired out to be occupied, or that is occupied for living purposes. Each unit must have independent means of egress with no more than five lodgers or boarders per unit"

So if you have more than five firefighters it is not a dwelling. LOL

"DWELLING UNIT. A single unit providing complete independent living facilities for one or more persons, including permanent provisions for living, sleeping, eating, cooking and sanitation."

We could argue all day on this. I would say that the living quarters are temporary. What about army barracks? Was writing when Bob posted about this.

Ohio has this in its Residential Code:

"5. Residential buildings with attached occupancies that are within the scope of the OBC shall comply with the requirements of the OBC. "

 

[iwire]

I would say that the living quarters are temporary.

No, the living quarters are as permanent as they are at my home, the people are more temporary.

 

[jxofaltrds]

As I read this I believe the intent was residential.

100

Dwelling, One-Family. A building that consists solely of
one dwelling unit.
Dwelling, Two-Family. A building that consists solely of
two dwelling units.
Dwelling, Multifamily. A building that contains three or
more dwelling units.
Dwelling Unit. A single unit, providing complete and independent
living facilities for one or more persons, including
permanent provisions for living, sleeping, cooking, and
sanitation.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

ICC based:

"DWELLING. Any building or portion of a building that contains one or more dwelling units used, intended, or designed to be built, used, rented, leased, let or hired out to be occupied, or that is occupied for living purposes. Each unit must have independent means of egress with no more than five lodgers or boarders per unit"

So if you have more than five firefighters it is not a dwelling. LOL

"DWELLING UNIT. A single unit providing complete independent living facilities for one or more persons, including permanent provisions for living, sleeping, eating, cooking and sanitation."

We could argue all day on this. I would say that the living quarters are temporary. What about army barracks? Was writing when Bob posted about this.

Ohio has this in its Residential Code:

"5. Residential buildings with attached occupancies that are within the scope of the OBC shall comply with the requirements of the OBC. "

When a term is defined in the NEC, than that definition is the only one that can be used for the application of the rules in the NEC. The fact that there are differing definitions in other documents has no effect on the application of the NEC.
As far as the "permanent provisions" in the NEC definition, that has to do with the physical installation and not with the occupants.

 

[jxofaltrds]

When a term is defined in the NEC, than that definition is the only one that can be used for the application of the rules in the NEC. The fact that there are differing definitions in other documents has no effect on the application of the NEC.
As far as the "permanent provisions" in the NEC definition, that has to do with the physical installation and not with the occupants.

True but the other documents decide if the NEC is applicable.

 

[iwire]

As I read this I believe the intent was residential.

This is the definition of dwelling unit as used in 210.12

Dwelling Unit. A single unit, providing complete and independent
living facilities for one or more persons, including
permanent provisions for living, sleeping, cooking, and
sanitation.

That is the only definition that applies.

I submit a fire station is not a family dwelling unit at all but it is still a dwelling unit.

 

[iwire]

True but the other documents decide if the NEC is applicable.

Say what?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Having spent time in some military barracks - if arranged like those typically are I would not call them dwelling units, even though they come very close to meeting all of the dwelling unit definitions. Sanitation facilities are generally close to sleeping areas, dining facilities were either in a separate part of the facility or even in a different building. You could call a hospital or nursing home a dwelling if you want to - it does not stretch any thing in art 100 definition of dwelling far at all to do so.

If they are indeede dwelling units then 210.52 requirements must also be met, they never were in the military barracks.

All of the fire stations in this area, for the full time departments, have everything that is required in the defintion of a dwelling unit, in a single area and that area is separted from the rest of the station. In the one in our town, only thing on the second floor of the station is, the kitchen, living area, sleeping areas and bathrooms.
A hospital or nursing home does not normally have all of the requirements in a single ares, howerver the dorm rooms at the college my son attended did have all of that in each suite and each suite had its only panel and was wired to meet the rules of a dwelling unit, even though the only cooking equipment was a fastened in place microwave.
A number of the extended stay hotels, in the Chicago area, are wired as dwelling units including the AFCIs for the outlets in the sleeping and living areas.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

True but the other documents decide if the NEC is applicable.

Not for the application of the rule being discussed in this thread. The only rules that apply to the AFCI requirement are in the NEC. Nothing in any other code can change that.

 

[jxofaltrds]

This is the definition of dwelling unit as used in 210.12



That is the only definition that applies.

I submit a fire station is not a family dwelling unit at all but it is still a dwelling unit.

Then is a hospital a dwelling unit?

 

[jxofaltrds]

Say what?

You could not use this in the NEC:

"The authority having jurisdiction for
enforcement of the Code has the responsibility for making
interpretations of the rules,"

unless you got permission from your building code.

The NEC is a sub section of the building code not the other way around.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Then is a hospital a dwelling unit?

Only if it has all of the requirements for a dwelling unit in a "single unit". I guess now we have to know what "single unit" means. In my opinion, that means all of the requirements for a dwelling unit are located together and those items are "separate" from other parts of the facility.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

You could not use this in the NEC:

"The authority having jurisdiction for
enforcement of the Code has the responsibility for making
interpretations of the rules,"

unless you got permission from your building code.

The NEC is a sub section of the building code not the other way around.

The NEC is a stand alone code. It is not a sub-section of any other code.

 

[iwire]

The NEC is a sub section of the building code not the other way around.

I don't believe that is the case here.

Here the NEC has been adopted with amendments, period. Whatever it says in this adopted document is the code and I need not seek other codes for permission.

 

[jxofaltrds]

The NEC is a stand alone code. It is not a sub-section of any other code.

The provisions of the National Electric Code, NFPA 70, as referenced in the Ohio Building Code as the same may be revised and adopted by the State of Ohio, shall be incorporated herein and shall govern the installation, testing and operation of the electrical systems of one-, two- and three-family dwellings and their accessory structures within this jurisdiction.

http://publicecodes.citation.com/st/oh/st/b4v06/st_oh_st_b4v06_33.htm?bu=OH-P-2011-000004

Now your state may be different but I doubt so.

 

[iwire]

Then is a hospital a dwelling unit?

I think parts of it could be.

Dwelling Unit. A single unit, providing complete and independent
living facilities for one or more persons, including
permanent provisions for living, sleeping, cooking, and
sanitation.

But I doubt many 'single units' of a hospital contain all of the above.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Table 220.42?

220.82 Dwelling Unit.?

Table 310.15(B)(7)?

Reading the code is really going to be fun now that everything can be called a dwelling unit!

 

[ActionDave]

This is the definition of dwelling unit as used in 210.12

Dwelling Unit. A single unit, providing complete and independent
living facilities for one or more persons, including
permanent provisions for living, sleeping, cooking, and
sanitation.

That is the only definition that applies.

I submit a fire station is not a family dwelling unit at all but it is still a dwelling unit.

I agree. It is a clear definition. It is the space that is defined. Whether or not some lives in the space has no bearing.

 

[jxofaltrds]

I agree. It is a clear definition. It is the space that is defined. Whether or not some lives in the space has no bearing.

If I have friends over and pray in my living room does that make it a church, assembly hall, or whatever?

If I have them over today to swim and have drinks to I have a bar or an amusement park?

I haven't checked it in a while but amusement parks were inspected by the ag department not the Board of Building Standards.

Scarey stuff!

 

[iwire]

If I have friends over and pray in my living room does that make it a church, assembly hall, or whatever?

If I have them over today to swim and have drinks to I have a bar or an amusement park?

I haven't checked it in a while but amusement parks were inspected by the ag department not the Board of Building Standards.

Scarey stuff!

Again, the NEC definition of dwelling unit does not talk about what the space is used for, only how it is built and what it contains.