Some guys that work for me are taking a code class and the instructor has told them that you must use a green wirenut for splicing grounds. He says that anything used for grounding must be listed for grounding. He says it has been in the code since 1999 and is just now beginning to be enforced. Has any one heard of this?
Green Wirenuts
- Thread starter vince440
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mdshunk
Senior Member
- Location
- Right here.
I think he's nuts.
frizbeedog
Senior Member
- Location
- Oregon
Hogwash......
chris kennedy
Senior Member
- Location
- Miami Fla.
- Occupation
- 60 yr old tool twisting electrician
Greens are the only wire nuts listed or approved to clear a fault???
mdshunk
Senior Member
- Location
- Right here.
:grin: Yeah, like fault current electrons know what color the plastic on the outside is.chris kennedy said:
electricalperson
Senior Member
- Location
- massachusetts
i like using greenies but saying its required is wrong. you can use a bucanan or a regular wirenut if you like just as long as the conductors are secured
e57
Senior Member
- Location
- San Francisco, CA
Instructors - source of myths and lies? I wanna be one......... :grin:
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
The instructor has it backwards.
Every color wire nut can be used for grounding as well as for current carrying. Greenies, however, can be used only for grounding.
Every color wire nut can be used for grounding as well as for current carrying. Greenies, however, can be used only for grounding.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
If someone tells you that something has been in the code since 1999 they should be able to provide you with a code reference. Don't believe everything that instructors tell you. They make mistakes just like everyone else.
Pierre C Belarge
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Actually the instructor has a very good source of information, and he is correct...somewhat.
Buchannans and most wirenuts on the market today are not listed as suitable for grounding purposes.
You can get as mad as you like, it is a pure fact.
Look in the manufacturers product books.
I found this out back in the early 2000s. Ideal's product book is the best for reference purposes.
In the early 2000s, I called a tech from Ideal (you can do the same now if you choose to), and they agreed that only the greenie wirenuts are listed as suitable for grounding purposes.
I told them I thought their book was very misleading. They told me to take a close look and that the pictures and the wording are very clear in showing and telling which wirenuts are listed for which purpose. When you take a look, you will see that colored wirenuts (other than green) and the barrels are only terminated in the pictures to phase conductors. The listing for them is UL 486 & 486C.
If a wirenut is listed as suitable for grounding, it would be UL 467.
What would almost seem ironic is the push-in type of terminals that most seem not to like are listed for both UL 486 and UL 467.
The grounding accessories such as Term-a-Nut Grounding connector is listed for both as well.
There is a reason for this, and it really boils down to two things. I got this info directly from UL.
1. The wirenuts are not required to be listed, unless the termination is for grounding purposes (250.8)
2. Since they are generally not required to be listed, the manufacturers are not going to spend the big bucks to get them listed for grounding, especially since they show them in their catelogs as used for phase connections.
As far as some inspectors requiring particular type wirenuts, that may be what they are being requested to do, or since they may have the same info I have, they may be enforcing for those reasons.
There is other info as far as the dynamics of the fault circuit and what role the wirenuts play in that scenario, that can be left for another thread. :wink:
Buchannans and most wirenuts on the market today are not listed as suitable for grounding purposes.
You can get as mad as you like, it is a pure fact.
Look in the manufacturers product books.
I found this out back in the early 2000s. Ideal's product book is the best for reference purposes.
In the early 2000s, I called a tech from Ideal (you can do the same now if you choose to), and they agreed that only the greenie wirenuts are listed as suitable for grounding purposes.
I told them I thought their book was very misleading. They told me to take a close look and that the pictures and the wording are very clear in showing and telling which wirenuts are listed for which purpose. When you take a look, you will see that colored wirenuts (other than green) and the barrels are only terminated in the pictures to phase conductors. The listing for them is UL 486 & 486C.
If a wirenut is listed as suitable for grounding, it would be UL 467.
What would almost seem ironic is the push-in type of terminals that most seem not to like are listed for both UL 486 and UL 467.
The grounding accessories such as Term-a-Nut Grounding connector is listed for both as well.
There is a reason for this, and it really boils down to two things. I got this info directly from UL.
1. The wirenuts are not required to be listed, unless the termination is for grounding purposes (250.8)
2. Since they are generally not required to be listed, the manufacturers are not going to spend the big bucks to get them listed for grounding, especially since they show them in their catelogs as used for phase connections.
As far as some inspectors requiring particular type wirenuts, that may be what they are being requested to do, or since they may have the same info I have, they may be enforcing for those reasons.
There is other info as far as the dynamics of the fault circuit and what role the wirenuts play in that scenario, that can be left for another thread. :wink:
Pierre C Belarge
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
infinity said:
I believe it has been in the NEC a lot longer than that... I took a quick look in the '87 NEC and the requirement for listed products is not there.
quogueelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- new york
By me for residential we must use either green wirenuts or crimp ferrules That is what I was taught or it will be knocked down. I buy them in bulk on ebay because they are so expensive I got a whole case of them once real cheap. I do not know a code reference but I see them used everywhere in residential by me. I could call a local inspector and see if it is a local code when I have more time. Greenies or ferrules but only in residential or you get a BIG SCARLET V ACROSS THE PANEL. I very rarely get knocked down on anything anyway. And it has been around at least 15 yrs that I know of.vince440 said:
Last edited:
mdshunk
Senior Member
- Location
- Right here.
Note to self:Pierre C Belarge said:
Scratch Pierre off list of heros.
electricalperson
Senior Member
- Location
- massachusetts
if an inspector failed my job because i didnt use a green wire nut i would slap him silly
Minuteman
Senior Member
- Location
- The Sooner Nation
Did a remodel, were somebody before me used orange Wagos for the grounds. Maybe they should have been green.
electricalperson
Senior Member
- Location
- massachusetts
i actually decided to use greenies because they were a little cheaper than crimp sleeves. not cheaper by much just a few cents
Pierre,
I have a bag of Ideal red wing nuts in front of me model #452 and it says
" Listed as a PRESSURE-TYPE wire connector" and it says it just like I typed
it. In your opinion is this no good for grounding connections? 250.8 says
" listed pressure connectors" what's your take on this ?
I have a bag of Ideal red wing nuts in front of me model #452 and it says
" Listed as a PRESSURE-TYPE wire connector" and it says it just like I typed
it. In your opinion is this no good for grounding connections? 250.8 says
" listed pressure connectors" what's your take on this ?
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
The very fact that there is a different listing for grounding connections than power connections makes me question the sanity of the people that write the standards. How do they think that the current gets to the grounding path in the event of a fault? There can be no more current on the grounding path than there is on the supply path. If the standard wire nut can supply the current into the fault, then a standard wire nut can return the current to the source.
Yes, I know the Pierre is right and that is why the NEC says that you can use listed pressure connectors for the EGC. There was a proposal that would have required the use of pressure connectors that are listed for grounding to be used on the EGC, but that proposal was rejected.
Yes, I know the Pierre is right and that is why the NEC says that you can use listed pressure connectors for the EGC. There was a proposal that would have required the use of pressure connectors that are listed for grounding to be used on the EGC, but that proposal was rejected.
76nemo
Senior Member
- Location
- Ogdensburg, NY
electricalperson said:
Our main inspector is almost 70, I don't have that option:grin:
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