Grounded conductor identification

[Cow]

In many areas of the country this rule is not followed. Around here it is rare to see white or green larger than #10.

It's interesting how different parts of the country operate. We have all the white and green #6 and 8 we can handle over here. But our inspectors do look at the reidentified conductor size.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

How is it safe to re-identify #4 but not safe to re-identify #8? This is just an arbitrary line in the sand, and in some areas this line has been moved...unofficially, in most cases, but still moved. An electrician that needs to see the colors white and green to identify the function of the conductors is not a qualified person and shouldn't be doing electrical work.

I don't know why the rules are what they are. But when rules are not followed unsafe conditions can develop.

As far as not needed wire colors if your qualified... I wouldn't want to work on a system where the colors are random and don't mean anything. It would be awful tough and dangerous.

 

[iwire]

As far as not needed wire colors if your qualified... I wouldn't want to work on a system where the colors are random and don't mean anything. It would be awful tough and dangerous.

I do that almost everyday, it is not hard when that is what your used to. Electricity is color blind.

And here in MA and RI it is the same as Don describes, most times we remark all conductors 8 and larger.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

...

As far as not needed wire colors if your qualified... I wouldn't want to work on a system where the colors are random and don't mean anything. It would be awful tough and dangerous.

Sometimes I think it would be better if the only color of insulation was black...then you would have to know what you are doing to work on the system, and it would take a lot more manhours making more work for qualified electricians (economic stimulus for electricians).

 

[LarryFine]

. . . most times we remark all conductors 8 and larger.

That's remarkable!

 

[Fulthrotl]

How is it safe to re-identify #4 but not safe to re-identify #8? This is just an arbitrary line in the sand, and in some areas this line has been moved...unofficially, in most cases, but still moved.

#6 is often pulled all black and taped... is it acceptable per the code? nope.
can the inspector require you to repull it? yep.

so, do you feel lucky today, punk? well, do ya?
-Inspector Harry Callahan

 

[daleuger]

#6 is often pulled all black and taped... is it acceptable per the code? nope.
can the inspector require you to repull it? yep.

so, do you feel lucky today, punk? well, do ya?
-Inspector Harry Callahan

Never ever ever ever ever EVER seen or even heard of that happening, but now knowing that little factoid wouldn't be surprised if it did. OTOH I wouldn't be up on a soap box lecturing people not to do it either. Phasing is a common sense thing. Pick your battles.

 

[joeyww12000]

I appreciate all the responses once again. My opinion would be to just do it by the book. Most of the guys I work with are "know it alls" and I get a kick out of deflating there egos by doing things right. I am at least putting the effort into finding out what is code and what is not. Im sure none of my coworkers are up right now studying to get better at there job.

 

[jrannis]

210-4(d) 99' NEC is not refering to the application of 200-7 Also see 310-12

I know, 310-12 is a circular reference to identifying the grounded conductor.
Its OK to tape mark a white conductor as an ungrounded conductor. But the other way around has its limit at the #6 size.

 

[dcspector]

I know, 310-12 is a circular reference to identifying the grounded conductor.
Its OK to tape mark a white conductor as an ungrounded conductor. But the other way around has its limit at the #6 size.

Just not in a raceway, was all I was saying.

 

[daleuger]

I do that almost everyday, it is not hard when that is what your used to. Electricity is color blind.

And here in MA and RI it is the same as Don describes, most times we remark all conductors 8 and larger.

Holy cow! Working like that must keep you on your toes, eh? Bet that meter has saved your life a few times.

 

[daleuger]

I don't know why the rules are what they are. But when rules are not followed unsafe conditions can develop.

As far as not needed wire colors if your qualified... I wouldn't want to work on a system where the colors are random and don't mean anything. It would be awful tough and dangerous.

In a panel, xfrmr, starter something like that yeah common sense will prevail as to what should be landed where. Not so much when you look at some of the messes that sometimes happen in j-boxes.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

#6 is often pulled all black and taped... is it acceptable per the code? nope.
can the inspector require you to repull it? yep.

so, do you feel lucky today, punk? well, do ya?
-Inspector Harry Callahan

You just have to know the area where you are working and how the code is enforced. You can get a good idea by seeing if the local electrical supply houses stock white and green #8 and #6. If they don't then it is a good bet that this rule is not enforced locally.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

I do that almost everyday, it is not hard when that is what your used to. Electricity is color blind.

And here in MA and RI it is the same as Don describes, most times we remark all conductors 8 and larger.

Why bother remarking? A real electrician doesn't need it :smile:

 

[dcspector]

Why bother remarking? A real electrician doesn't need it :smile:

Electricity color blind or not and real electricians or not.....code is code do it by the book......end of conversation.

 

[iwire]

Why bother remarking? A real electrician doesn't need it :smile:

Because I want to pass inspection. :smile:

FWIW here in MA they amended the NEC so we are not required to remark whites used as hots for switch legs, an electrician knows what a switch leg is.

 

[dcspector]

Because I want to pass inspection. :smile:

FWIW here in MA they amended the NEC so we are not required to remark whites used as hots for switch legs, an electrician knows what a switch leg is.

Bob the Ma amend. is that only for cables as far as not having to re id? Just curious.

 

[iwire]

Bob the Ma amend. is that only for cables as far as not having to re id? Just curious.

Yes, the amendment is specifically to 200.7(C)(2).

But it does tend to display the disdain we have for color identification.

 

[dcspector]

Yes, the amendment is specifically to 200.7(C)(2).

But it does tend to display the disdain we have for color identification.

I see the point...I am stuck legally enforcing what is written, rediculous as some codes may be. Thanks. We should all walk a mile in each others boots. "I have".....Hope that made sense.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

Yes, the amendment is specifically to 200.7(C)(2).

But it does tend to display the disdain we have for color identification.

Have you or anyone else you know of proposed a change in the requirement?
Just wondering if any ROC has ever spelled out the reason for the apparently arbitrary line in the sand.