Panel in the Clothes Closet

[finhead]

The designer of a 16-unit condominium has put a 100 amp panel in the clothes closet of each unit. The walk-in closet is 8ft by 8ft and the panel is mounted behind the hinged door which swings in. Shelves with poles are shown on the wall opposite the door and the wall opposite the panel. I am swaying back and forth on this arrangement and would love to hear what other members think.
Section 240.24 (D) requires that overcurrent devices not be located in the vicinity of easily ignitible material, and (it seems to me) sites clothes closets only as an example of such locations.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
Brian Dolan

 

[lowryder88h]

panel

panel

Finhead, as you stated 240.24 (D) "such as clothes closets" if smells like a clothes closet & stores like a clothes closet. IMHO its a clothes closet.

 

[raider1]

If it is a walk-in clothes closet then you can not install overcurrent devices in the clothes closet no matter how big the closet is or where the overcurrent devices are placed within that closet IMHO.

Chris

 

[don_resqcapt19]

If it is a walk-in clothes closet then you can not install overcurrent devices in the clothes closet no matter how big the closet is or where the overcurrent devices are placed within that closet IMHO.

I don't agree. The use of the words "such as in clothes closets" is just an example of an area that may be in the vicinity of easily ignitible material and not a blanket prohibition on installing a panel in a clothes closet. If the design keeps the panel out of the vicinity of the easily ingnitible material, I see no real issue in putting it in the closet. Note, I doubt that many inspectors will agree with my position on this, so get a ruling in writing from the AHJ before installing the panels.
Don

 

[bkludecke]

This is one that I disagree with. I believe the intent of this section is to keep OCPD away from combustables. We all know the type of clothes closets (reach in) where the panel is on a side wall with clothes pushed up next to it (just look at any mobile home). A walk-in closet with the panel behind the door swing is not putting the OCPD near combustables. I've made this arguement successfully to our AHJ on numerous occasions. Bottom line, check with the AHJ. If it has cleared plancheck then my guess is it's OK.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I don't agree. If the design keeps the panel out of the vicinity of the easily ingnitible material, I see no real issue in putting it in the closet.
Don

Don-- so when is a panel considered out of the vicinity of combustibles? That sounds like a very subjective statement that would be hard to enforce. For all practical purposes if the panel has a 3' wide 30 inches in front and 6'6 clearance than wouldn't that be away from combustibles. I see a lot of difficulties in using your interpretation. Quite frankly I don't understand why it can't be in a clothes closet except for the idea that someone will hang clothing over it. If that's the case then behind the door or anywhere in the closet is subject to having clothing hang over it.

 

[steve66]

But how can anyone know where the condo owner will store stuff? They could place a coat hook above the panel. Just a thought.

Then again, I've always had an issue with the term "vicinity". If the overcurrent devices are enclosed in a metal panelboard, are they still in the "vicinity" of combustible material on the other side of the metal? Or was this rule intended to only apply to open style devices?

There is no rule in the "panelboard" section preventing a panelboard from being installed in a closet.

Steve

 

[dcspector]

The OP said "CLOTHES CLOSET" I do not care if it is the size of a "football field" it is a clothes closet.

 

[iwire]

The OP said "CLOTHES CLOSET" I do not care if it is the size of a "football field" it is a clothes closet.

I agree but think it is a ridiculous requirement.

In my area most panels are in basements, most of those basements are packed with easily ignitable material so whats the difference if there is the required 110.26 space?

 

[dcspector]

Bob, I will go along with you on that. Wherever one installs a panel...Heck a garage and one stores gas cans below it?

 

[iwire]

Heck a garage and one stores gas cans below it?

Yeah that is another common situation. I would think some carpets are easily ignitable.

But I still agree with you that a clothes closet would be a no.

 

[raider1]

I would love to see this section re-written. JMHO

Chris

 

[electricmanscott]

The OP said "CLOTHES CLOSET" I do not care if it is the size of a "football field" it is a clothes closet.

Is it possible for you to actually read the code rule and think about it a little bit?

I don't see anything that says you absolutely can not put a panel in a clothes closet. The wording as written is actually quite vague and unclear as they don't say you can't do this but instead they say this might be one situation where this would not be permitted. As in a clothes closet might have easily ignitable materials that would be too close to the panel therefore no panel allowed there, not because it is a closet but because of the material in the vicinity. But this would not be the case in every closet so easily ignitable material (what the rule is adressing) would not be an issue so put a panel there if you wish. Also there is no indication of where the vicinity starts and ends.

The way it is written you probably shouold not be putting a panel anywhere inside a dwelling at all.

 

[dcspector]

E-Scott I do agree......I do not like this Article as Chris and Bob also mentioned.....too many "loop holes"......re write.....MHO....

 

[stickboy1375]

The way I read it is, if they didnt want the OCP in a clothes closet, It would say Not allowed in a clothes closet..., but thats not what it says...

 

[360Youth]

As many have said, if it is a clothes closet, then "no." I am getting ready to do an addition where they want to put the panel in what could be viewed as a coat closet in a hall (actually a mechanical room), which I would consider a violation. I had them call the inspector in and OK it. Now I am covered against any potential use.

 

[memyselfandI]

Here is a thought, put a sign on the door that says " Electrical Equipment Room. Not For Storage." Now it is a dedicated electrical equipment room and if the clearances are there can it still be classified as a closet?

 

[jack horner]

I don't agree. The use of the words "such as in clothes closets" is just an example of an area that may be in the vicinity of easily ignitible material and not a blanket prohibition on installing a panel in a clothes closet. If the design keeps the panel out of the vicinity of the easily ingnitible material, I see no real issue in putting it in the closet. Note, I doubt that many inspectors will agree with my position on this, so get a ruling in writing from the AHJ before installing the panels.
Don

I agree with you. If the panel is located behind the swing of the door then it would be very hard to pile stuff up in front of this panel such clothes, boxes or even "easily ignitible materials". Is wood an "easily ingnitible material"? Any way where I live and work panels are often located behind the swing of the doors in walk-in closets.

 

[electricmanscott]

AI am getting ready to do an addition where they want to put the panel in what could be viewed as a coat closet in a hall (actually a mechanical room), which I would consider a violation. I had them call the inspector in and OK it. Now I am covered against any potential use.

A mechanical room is NOT a closet so I don't know what the problem here is.

You are NEVER covered against anything. Just ask a lawyer.

 

[electricmanscott]

They way I read it is, if they didnt want the OCP in a clothes closet, It would say Not allowed in a clothes closet..., but thats not what it says...

Exactly. a Bathroom is specifically prohibited. A closet is not.