Residential Panel outside

[dmanda24]

How would you bring romex cables into an outside panel, can you use a pvc nipple if so, where do I find how many fit in a particular size conduit, would I need to derrate them? please help me, pictures are appreciated.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

How would you bring romex cables into an outside panel, can you use a pvc nipple if so, where do I find how many fit in a particular size conduit, would I need to derrate them? please help me, pictures are appreciated.

Although many areas allow a short nipple to be used in an exterior panel there is nowhere in the code that allows this. Where I am able I will usually put a short nipple into a JB in the crawl space and strip my wires long enough to enter the exterior panel without splice. If the nipple is less than 2' then no derating is necessary. I usually use a 2" nipple-- sometimes 2 nipples into 2 JB's.

 

[dmanda24]

Although many areas allow a short nipple to be used in an exterior panel there is nowhere in the code that allows this. Where I am able I will usually put a short nipple into a JB in the crawl space and strip my wires long enough to enter the exterior panel without splice. If the nipple is less than 2' then no derating is necessary. I usually use a 2" nipple-- sometimes 2 nipples into 2 JB's.

is there something in the code that prohibits it? how about the number of 12/2 allowed in that 2" nipple

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Check this out

312.5 Cabinets, Cutout Boxes, and Meter Socket Enclosures.
Conductors entering enclosures within the scope of this article shall be protected from abrasion and shall comply with 312.5(A) through (C).

(C) Cables. Where cable is used, each cable shall be secured to the cabinet, cutout box, or meter socket enclosure.
Exception: Cables with entirely nonmetallic sheaths shall be permitted to enter the top of a surface-mounted enclosure through one or more nonflexible raceways not less than 450 mm (18 in.) and not more than 3.0 m (10 ft) in length, provided all of the following conditions are met:
(a) Each cable is fastened within 300 mm (12 in.), measured along the sheath, of the outer end of the raceway.
(b) The raceway extends directly above the enclosure and does not penetrate a structural ceiling.
(c) A fitting is provided on each end of the raceway to protect the cable(s) from abrasion and the fittings remain accessible after installation.
(d) The raceway is sealed or plugged at the outer end using approved means so as to prevent access to the enclosure through the raceway.
(e) The cable sheath is continuous through the raceway and extends into the enclosure beyond the fitting not less than 6 mm (? in.).
(f) The raceway is fastened at its outer end and at other points in accordance with the applicable article.
(g) Where installed as conduit or tubing, the allowable cable fill does not exceed that permitted for complete conduit or tubing systems by Table 1 of Chapter 9 of this Code and all applicable notes thereto.

 

[Buck Parrish]

We use two inch nipples out the back of a panel all the time. Just did one today. I squeeze as many wires that will fit in the nipple. If it is less then 18" long and has a bushing on the end,

 

[dmanda24]

what is "structural ceiling"? how do I get to the attic space witout going through the ceiling

 

[dmanda24]

what would be the logic behind "not less than 450 mm (18 in.) "

 

[Buck Parrish]

what is "structural ceiling"? how do I get to the attic space witout going through the ceiling

"Structual" supports the building.
If you are outside the house to get in the attic is easy, just up the wall then lb in to the attic.

 

[Buck Parrish]

what would be the logic behind "not less than 450 mm (18 in.) "

You don't have to derate.
Some body correct me if this has changed in 08.

 

[augie47]

You don't have to derate.
Some body correct me if this has changed in 08.

312.5 didn't change in '08


"If you are outside the house to get in the attic is easy, just up the wall then lb in to the attic. "

not with NM! 334.12(B)(4)

 

[Dennis Alwon]

"Structual" supports the building.
If you are outside the house to get in the attic is easy, just up the wall then lb in to the attic.

If you pipe up to the attic then you cannot sleeve nm cable in the conduit. NM is not allowed outside in conduit.

I would pipe up the wall to the attic but I would install a JB and then , unfortunately, put THWN cable in the conduit

 

[dmanda24]

You don't have to derate.
Some body correct me if this has changed in 08.

that's 24" max this is saying 18" min. why wouldn't you be able to do 6".

 

[Buck Parrish]

6" You can.



I'm still trying to figure what Dennis said no nm in conduit out side:-?

 

[dmanda24]

6" You can.



I'm still trying to figure what Dennis said no nm in conduit out side:-?

(C) Cables. Where cable is used, each cable shall be secured to the cabinet, cutout box, or meter socket enclosure.
Exception: Cables with entirely nonmetallic sheaths shall be permitted to enter the top of a surface-mounted enclosure through one or more nonflexible raceways not less than 450 mm (18 in.) and not more than 3.0 m (10 ft) in length, provided all of the following conditions are met:

 

[tkb]

Conduit outside is a wet location and NM is not allowed in a wet location.

 

[Buck Parrish]

(C) Cables. Where cable is used, each cable shall be secured to the cabinet, cutout box, or meter socket enclosure.
Exception: Cables with entirely nonmetallic sheaths shall be permitted to enter the top of a surface-mounted enclosure through one or more nonflexible raceways not less than 450 mm (18 in.) and not more than 3.0 m (10 ft) in length, provided all of the following conditions are met:

Is this new in 08?
I thought that was just when useing car flex.

 

[raider1]

6" You can.



I'm still trying to figure what Dennis said no nm in conduit out side:-?

The interior of raceways installed in a wet location is concidered a wet location and requires conductors rated for a wet location. NM cable can't be installed in a wet location.

Chris

 

[raider1]

Is this new in 08?
I thought that was just when useing car flex.

312.5(C) is not new to the 2008.

Chris

 

[dmanda24]

We use two inch nipples out the back of a panel all the time. Just did one today. I squeeze as many wires that will fit in the nipple. If it is less then 18" long and has a bushing on the end,

wouldn't that be a violation also, they are only suppossed to enter through the top

(C) Cables. Where cable is used, each cable shall be secured to the cabinet, cutout box, or meter socket enclosure.
Exception: Cables with entirely nonmetallic sheaths shall be permitted to enter the top of a surface-mounted enclosure through one or more nonflexible raceways not less than 450 mm (18 in.) and not more than 3.0 m (10 ft) in length, provided all of the following conditions are met:

 

[dmanda24]

Although many areas allow a short nipple to be used in an exterior panel there is nowhere in the code that allows this. Where I am able I will usually put a short nipple into a JB in the crawl space and strip my wires long enough to enter the exterior panel without splice. If the nipple is less than 2' then no derating is necessary. I usually use a 2" nipple-- sometimes 2 nipples into 2 JB's.

Strip the wires? so you are saying that the nm cannot be in a conduit outside because is a wet location but if you take out the plastic covering then is ok for wet location, am I understanding you correctly?