Rommex Installation

[jxofaltrds]

At an Ohio Chapter meeting of the IAEI I asked this same question... and we had worms everywhere:grin:

Pete

Pete

I do not remember where but I thought that everyone agree that going to a light, recpt, etc. still met the 'intent' of the code.

In my words, simply penetrating the exterior does not make it 'outside' (exposed).

Kind of like how we use the exception in 300.22(C).

 

[pete m.]

Pete

I do not remember where but I thought that everyone agree that going to a light, recpt, etc. still met the 'intent' of the code.

In my words, simply penetrating the exterior does not make it 'outside' (exposed).

Kind of like how we use the exception in 300.22(C).

I'm not sure that it was ever agreed to as in a "policy" but I also know of no inspector that has pushed the issue to the Nth degree. I do not see it as an issue worthy of rejecting the installation but if we are gonna look at a "location, damp" with a magnifying glass the example would have to be considered.

Pete

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I'm not sure that it was ever agreed to as in a "policy" but I also know of no inspector that has pushed the issue to the Nth degree. I do not see it as an issue worthy of rejecting the installation but if we are gonna look at a "location, damp" with a magnifying glass the example would have to be considered.

Pete

Pete if you go that far then the breakers would have to be listed for damp location. It can get absurd.

 

[pete m.]

Pete if you go that far then the breakers would have to be listed for damp location. It can get absurd.

I agree... and no I don't go that far and I also think it should never be taken that far. That was the point I attempted (I guess poorly) to make.

Pete

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

A bathroom is often very damp and other than the shower area itself we never call it damp.

 

[jimport]

A bathroom is often very damp and other than the shower area itself we never call it damp.

I can show you HI's that think the ceiling of the shower meets the definition of a wet area. Grin.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

It is legal to build a 2 x 4 frame wall and just put vinyl siding on it and run romex thru it ,and yes actually seen it. So are those wires in damp location ? Point is if rain, wind and that white stuff you got up north can't touch it then i do not think its damp. Many would say a basement is damp but we not only see romex but also panels. Without NEC giving a clear definition of damp i don't see a way to enforce it. As most know i live in the damest state around and seldom see romex damaged from damp climates unless it is actually getting wet and even then it holds up fine unless it gets a cut or nick in the jacket. My concerns with romex are physical damage from nails and etc but not from it getting a bit damp. Now that is just my opinion and not had any inspectors see it otherwise.

 

[jxofaltrds]

It is legal to build a 2 x 4 frame wall and just put vinyl siding on it and run romex thru it ,and yes actually seen it. So are those wires in damp location ? Point is if rain, wind and that white stuff you got up north can't touch it then i do not think its damp. Many would say a basement is damp but we not only see romex but also panels. Without NEC giving a clear definition of damp i don't see a way to enforce it. As most know i live in the damest state around and seldom see romex damaged from damp climates unless it is actually getting wet and even then it holds up fine unless it gets a cut or nick in the jacket. My concerns with romex are physical damage from nails and etc but not from it getting a bit damp. Now that is just my opinion and not had any inspectors see it otherwise.

I do not think that the dampness will hurt it either. I just do not think that it meets the code.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I do not think that the dampness will hurt it either. I just do not think that it meets the code.

Seems that it depends on that key word DAMP. Without a clear way to measure that just who gets to say if it is or is not damp. Only damage i see often is if the ends get water in them either from beinging installed before house is dried in or being in back of a pickup truck. Usually that damage is just the last foot and the paper gets wet. Wet paper i do believe will corode the bare ground to some degree. Also it takes forever to dry out.
If its ran behind the buildings finish i do not think it is damp any more so than what we have in bathrooms behind 1/2 inch drywall.

 

[macmikeman]

If the windows to a dwelling are left open, the interior is subject to damp. About as much as the crawl space or the underside of a dwelling built 3' up on posts with an open skirt around the base of it. Now we have an inspector who has decided the raised houses are damp underneath. No more nm cable allowed under houses in his area. I can only say the code backs him, and experience of 30 years encountering thousands of similar dwellings that have nm cables run underneath with no problems at all doesn't support his stance, but code backs him. So thats that.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

If the windows to a dwelling are left open, the interior is subject to damp. About as much as the crawl space or the underside of a dwelling built 3' up on posts with an open skirt around the base of it. Now we have an inspector who has decided the raised houses are damp underneath. No more nm cable allowed under houses in his area. I can only say the code backs him, and experience of 30 years encountering thousands of similar dwellings that have nm cables run underneath with no problems at all doesn't support his stance, but code backs him. So thats that.

It would be a hard fight not because he is right but because it is subject to ahj as acceptable or not. At best you could go to the head of the electrical dept but chances are they already made up there minds and have no use for facts.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Seems that it depends on that key word DAMP. Without a clear way to measure that just who gets to say if it is or is not damp. Only damage i see often is if the ends get water in them either from beinging installed before house is dried in or being in back of a pickup truck. Usually that damage is just the last foot and the paper gets wet. Wet paper i do believe will corode the bare ground to some degree. Also it takes forever to dry out.
If its ran behind the buildings finish i do not think it is damp any more so than what we have in bathrooms behind 1/2 inch drywall.

The building industry does.

"Both APA The Engineered Wood Association (APA) and the Vinyl Siding Institute (VSI) recommend weather resistant barriers."

So if the NM is installed on top of the wrap or building paper it is not protected from the weather.

I believe NM was meant for inside locations ony. That is my opinion and is not enforceable.

Can you give any fact that this 'area' is considered dry? It is not in the NEC so you would have to find something from ICC, APA, VSI or many of the other trade association websites to convince me that this area is considered dry.

Again I do not think that the NM will get 'wet' but it is not my call.

 

[iwire]

Enough, this has become ridiculous.