SABC Load

[little george]

Does the code prohibit installing the waste disposal on the SABC? In practice, I would not do it but I am an inspector and I see numerous attempts to save money and this would save the cost of a individual circuit.

Code References please.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Does the code prohibit installing the waste disposal on the SABC? In practice, I would not do it but I am an inspector and I see numerous attempts to save money and this would save the cost of a individual circuit.

Code References please.

SABC cannot be on the circuit with a disposal. Read 210.52(B)(1&2)

 

[iwire]

Even if it is cord and plug connected?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Even if it is cord and plug connected?

Gee, we better ask Mike Whitt. :grin:

 

[RUWired]

Would'nt the disposal be a fixed appliance and not a small or portable appliance.

Rick

 

[little george]

The Disposal is a fixed appliance and so are some microwaves, toasters, mixers and wine coolers. The issue is not addressed in the code as to whether or not is fixed or portable. The real issue is the load on the circuit. As far as that goes we have a Mr. Coffee and frying pans that are not fixed and they certainly are a large load. I see nothing in the code that prohibits putting the disposal on the SABC.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The Disposal is a fixed appliance and so are some microwaves, toasters, mixers and wine coolers. The issue is not addressed in the code as to whether or not is fixed or portable. The real issue is the load on the circuit. As far as that goes we have a Mr. Coffee and frying pans that are not fixed and they certainly are a large load. I see nothing in the code that prohibits putting the disposal on the SABC.

George, where are you going to install this recep.?? If you are going to install it under the sink then it is a violation if it is on the SABC. If you direct wire it it is stilla violation. I showed you the article and it is pretty clear.

 

[RUWired]

if a disposal is just plugged inthe walloutlet when needed i don't see a problem, but if it is controlled by a switch in the wall, the switch would not be listed in 210.52(B)1.

Rick

 

[Dennis Alwon]

if a disposal is just plugged inthe walloutlet when needed i don't see a problem, but if it is controlled by a switch in the wall, the switch would not be listed in 210.52(B)1.

Rick

If the outlet is in the cabinet then it cannot be on the sabc. Can I put the dishwasher on the SABC, disposal, instant hot???? I don't think so.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Even if it is cord and plug connected?

You have no clue about residential ? No its a no go Bob. Never has been and never will

 

[RUWired]

If the outlet is in the cabinet then it cannot be on the sabc. Can I put the dishwasher on the SABC, disposal, instant hot???? I don't think so.

Right because its not part of the counter top outlets.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Who would put a cord and plug on a disposal and then plug it into the outlets on the countertop. Of course, you cannot stop that from being done but you cannot wire the disposal to the SABC.

 

[Split Bolt]

I have seen MANY homes where the disposal is on same circuit with the light over the sink. (since the switches are usually together next to sink) I remember looking into it once, trying to prove that it can't be done that way as per NEC, but couldn't find any code issues. (didn't spend too much time and energy on it though) It seems to pass inspection around here. I wouldn't want my clients to complain about the kitchen light dimming while they use the disposer!

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I have seen MANY homes where the disposal is on same circuit with the light over the sink. (since the switches are usually together next to sink) I remember looking into it once, trying to prove that it can't be done that way as per NEC, but couldn't find any code issues. (didn't spend too much time and energy on it though) It seems to pass inspection around here. I wouldn't want my clients to complain about the kitchen light dimming while they use the disposer!

Depending on size it might be legal

 

[little george]

Dennis- There is nothing wrong code wise with installing a disposal on one of the SABC's. The code cautions you about doing this because it loads up the SABC. As a practical matter, I would not do it for a customer but as an inspector of 25 years I've learned the contractors want code references and this issue of the SABC is wide open to subjective interpretation. As for not recognizing receptacles in the cabinets, we do it all day long with appliance garages and Microwave enclosures.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Dennis- There is nothing wrong code wise with installing a disposal on one of the SABC's. The code cautions you about doing this because it loads up the SABC. As a practical matter, I would not do it for a customer but as an inspector of 25 years I've learned the contractors want code references and this issue of the SABC is wide open to subjective interpretation. As for not recognizing receptacles in the cabinets, we do it all day long with appliance garages and Microwave enclosures.

Plenty wrong here. The disposal is not a small appliance it is a fixed appliance

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Dennis- There is nothing wrong code wise with installing a disposal on one of the SABC's.

I beg to differ. An appliance garage is on the counter not under the counter.

210.52(B) Small Appliances.
(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment.

Show me in the article above where it permits the disposal. This is not really subject to interpretation, IMO. If you have been allowing a disposal on a SABC then, IMO, you have been making an error in enforcing the code-- I guess for 25 years...

I have shown you the article that applies now explain to me where in the code the disposal is allowed on a sabc.

 

[hurk27]

Dennis- There is nothing wrong code wise with installing a disposal on one of the SABC's. The code cautions you about doing this because it loads up the SABC. As a practical matter, I would not do it for a customer but as an inspector of 25 years I've learned the contractors want code references and this issue of the SABC is wide open to subjective interpretation. As for not recognizing receptacles in the cabinets, we do it all day long with appliance garages and Microwave enclosures.

210.52(B)(2) No Other Outlets. The two or more small-appliance branch circuits specified in 210.52(B)(1) shall have no other outlets.

I don't see where this is an FPN to caution us.

90.5 Mandatory Rules, Permissive Rules, and Explanatory Material.
(A) Mandatory Rules. Mandatory rules of this Code are those that identify actions that are specifically required or prohibited and are characterized by the use of the terms shall or shall not.

Seems like a mandatory rule to me?

 

[little george]

Is the disposal a small appliance? Answer: Yes

 

[hurk27]

Is the disposal a small appliance? Answer: Yes

While this had come up at a few of my IAEI western sectional conferences I have been to across many states, the CMPs at those meetings have always answered the same that SABC circuits could not supply dishwashers, micro-mates, disposals, or any other built-in appliances, that are mounted and not intended to be moved from place to place, any appliance the requires a receptacle to be located in a space just for that appliance is not a SABC allowed appliance, there are only three exceptions that are specifically allowed, refrigerator, gas fired range, and a wall mounted clock, now with your thinking why would they needed these exceptions? as under your thinking they would not even needed the exceptions in the code.

Do I think there is a danger in allowing this? well no the breaker will trip when the circuit gets over loaded, but it will create an inconvenience when the home owner tries to make coffee and some toast and the breaker keeps tripping, you can control how much is put on receptacles for fixed in place appliances "210.23(A)(2)" but you cant control what is put on general use receptacles such as ones on SABC. they are put there for convenience, if you have to install a receptacle for a specific mounted in place appliance then it should not go on a SABC circuit, remember even appliances that a home owner can mount to a cabnet is still left up to the home owner where to put it, and your not installing a receptacle just for it.