Small appliance branch circuits

[ammklq143]

If I install the required 2 SABC's in the kitchen and have a 24 inch counter on the other side of the kitchen next to the range...can I add a third SABC and put a receptacle over that countertop and then feed up to a receptacle for a microwave in the cabinet above the range? I was told that I couldn't feed the microwave receptacle in the cabinet but it wouldn't be much different than having a countertop microwave plugged into the receptacle on the counter. I asked my inspector from the state I do most of my work and he said he would allow it. I called the inspector back that told me I had to run a separate circuit to the microwave and mentioned that I already had the required number of SABC's and this was an additional one and only had one receptacle and the microwave on it and he said you can't feed the microwave from the SABC. Just wondering if that's right and if it says that an extra kitchen circuit can't feed something such as an over the range microwave.....? I went back and fed the microwave individually and fed the counter receptacle from one of the other two circuits. I didn't see that it would benefit me to argue about it either way. :happysad:

 

[Smart $]

Two points for which I agree with the "you cannot" inspector...

210.52 general statement and (3) thereunder says the receptacle outlets specified in the section are in addition to those located within cabinets.

210.52(B)(2) says the 2 or more SABC receptacles served per 210.52(B)(1) shall have no other outlets. A receptacle located in a cabinet would be another outlet.

 

[ammklq143]

Two points for which I agree with the "you cannot" inspector...

210.52 general statement and (3) thereunder says the receptacle outlets specified in the section are in addition to those located within cabinets.

210.52(B)(2) says the 2 or more SABC receptacles served per 210.52(B)(1) shall have no other outlets. A receptacle located in a cabinet would be another outlet.

It seems to be somewhat ambiguous. I agree with you on the circuits being in addition to the cabinet receptacles and that they can't have other outlets but the requirement is to have two circuits that comply with that. It doesn't say that you can't have a cabinet receptacle on an additional SABC after the two SABC requirement is met. Maybe I'm not reading it right but it seems there's a little gray area.

 

[mjf]

Microwave manufacturer instructions probably call for a dedicated circuit anyway.

 

[ActionDave]

It seems to be somewhat ambiguous. I agree with you on the circuits being in addition to the cabinet receptacles and that they can't have other outlets but the requirement is to have two circuits that comply with that. It doesn't say that you can't have a cabinet receptacle on an additional SABC after the two SABC requirement is met. Maybe I'm not reading it right but it seems there's a little gray area.

Read 210.52(B)(2) again. You are only required to have two SABCs. You can make every recpt on the counter tops a home run, but once you do you can't go inside a cabinet. Shall have no other outlets is as clear as it gets.

In a practical sense moving the microwave off the counter top and screwing it to the bottom of the upper cabinets changes nothing as far as how much power is used in the kitchen. You still are not suppose to extend the counter top circuit into the upper cabinet so it can be plugged in there.

 

[Smart $]

It seems to be somewhat ambiguous. I agree with you on the circuits being in addition to the cabinet receptacles and that they can't have other outlets but the requirement is to have two circuits that comply with that. It doesn't say that you can't have a cabinet receptacle on an additional SABC after the two SABC requirement is met. Maybe I'm not reading it right but it seems there's a little gray area.

The requirement of 210.52(B)(2) says "The two or more..." SABC's... so it applies to any and all regardless of how many are installed.

 

[jaylectricity]

Yeah, "or more" kind of dictates that "every" SABC circuit is included. Quick fix...Drill a hole in the bottom of the microwave cabinet and have the microwave plug into the countertop receptacle.

Is that fix allowed by the NEC?

 

[GoldDigger]

Yeah, "or more" kind of dictates that "every" SABC circuit is included. Quick fix...Drill a hole in the bottom of the microwave cabinet and have the microwave plug into the countertop receptacle.

Is that fix allowed by the NEC?

Is that fix acceptable to the owner?

 

[Little Bill]

Yeah, "or more" kind of dictates that "every" SABC circuit is included. Quick fix...Drill a hole in the bottom of the microwave cabinet and have the microwave plug into the countertop receptacle.

Is that fix allowed by the NEC?

The microwave is already mounted under the cabinets. That's why you drill up through the bottom of the cabinet and run the cord through to plug into a receptacle in the cabinet.
Since the MW is above the stove you couldn't very well drop a cord down to plug it in.

 

[GerryB]

Along the same lines can a regular hard wired hood be tapped off this sabc we are talking about?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Along the same lines can a regular hard wired hood be tapped off this sabc we are talking about?

The MW is not one of the small appliance branch circuit if it is mounted as a range hood. The receptacle is in the cabinet above the hood so it would ot qualify as a sabc

 

[Smart $]

If the receptacle is installed in the wall behind the cabinet, and the back of the cabinet is cut out to expose the entire assembly (i.e. cut out matches faceplate), is the receptacle technically a wall outlet or an outlet in the cabinet?

Correction: "within", as used in 210.52 general statement

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If the receptacle is installed in the wall behind the cabinet, and the back of the cabinet is cut out to expose the entire assembly (i.e. cut out matches faceplate), is the receptacle technically a wall outlet or an outlet in the cabinet?

Correction: "within", as used in 210.52 general statement

IMO, it is an outlet within the cabinet. Are you trying to say because the faceplate is flush with the wall it is not within the cabinet? :happyno: It is still inside the cabinet and would not count for the required outlets .

210.52 Dwelling Unit Receptacle Outlets. This section
provides requirements for 125-volt, 15- and 20-ampere receptacle
outlets. The receptacles required by this section
shall be in addition to any receptacle that is:
(1) Part of a luminaire or appliance, or
(2) Controlled by a wall switch in accordance with
210.70(A)(1), Exception No. 1, or
(3) Located within cabinets or cupboards, or
(4) Located more than 1.7 m (51⁄2 ft) above the floor

 

[Smart $]

IMO, it is an outlet within the cabinet. Are you trying to say because the faceplate is flush with the wall it is not within the cabinet? :happyno: It is still inside the cabinet and would not count for the required outlets .

If the faceplate back abuts the wall, the receptacle is not within the cabinet. When used, only part of the plug (and cord) would be within the cabinet.

What I'm attempting to point out is a receptacle within a cabinet is not necessarily the same as a receptacle accessed from within a cabinet.

 

[jaylectricity]

The microwave is already mounted under the cabinets. That's why you drill up through the bottom of the cabinet and run the cord through to plug into a receptacle in the cabinet.
Since the MW is above the stove you couldn't very well drop a cord down to plug it in.

Oh, I didn't see the part about the range, I thought it was a built-in microwave cabinet above the countertop.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If the faceplate back abuts the wall, the receptacle is not within the cabinet. When used, only part of the plug (and cord) would be within the cabinet.

What I'm attempting to point out is a receptacle within a cabinet is not necessarily the same as a receptacle accessed from within a cabinet.

I know what you are trying to do but IMO, you are playing with the words and you cannot believe that is the intent because it really makes no logical difference.

You are also saying a built in cabinet without a back is not withing the cabinet-- The only way to access the receptacle is from within. Sorry I can't buy it. :happyno:

 

[PetrosA]

I know what you are trying to do but IMO, you are playing with the words and you cannot believe that is the intent because it really makes no logical difference.

You are also saying a built in cabinet without a back is not withing the cabinet-- The only way to access the receptacle is from within. Sorry I can't buy it. :happyno:

Ok, but this can get hairy. What do you say when a refrigerator has panels installed on either side and an upper cabinet above. Does the fridge outlet on the wall inside that space now count as being inside a cabinet? You'd have to pull the fridge out to access it, so can it still be on a SABC or does it suddenly require an individual circuit?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Ok, but this can get hairy. What do you say when a refrigerator has panels installed on either side and an upper cabinet above. Does the fridge outlet on the wall inside that space now count as being inside a cabinet? You'd have to pull the fridge out to access it, so can it still be on a SABC or does it suddenly require an individual circuit?

Why does the fact that the refrigerator has panels change anything? The NEC still says it is part of the small appliance branch circuit. It does not have to be accessible. No different than any other install.

 

[petersonra]

I know what you are trying to do but IMO, you are playing with the words and you cannot believe that is the intent because it really makes no logical difference.

then the rule should be rewritten to say what you think it means, not just claim it is an intent thing or what some people want the outcome to be. we have seen that in several SCOTUS decisions.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

then the rule should be rewritten to say what you think it means, not just claim it is an intent thing or what some people want the outcome to be. we have seen that in several SCOTUS decisions.

Well then write a proposal. This is why the code is so screwed up. I appreciate Charlie's rule but this is taking it to extremes. The outlet IMO is in the cabinet.