Talking with another electrician....

[svh19044]

At that price, let him do it. I had a horror experience where we met with the "hot tub salesman". He said that his electrician could do it cheaper than us, and continued on how we don't need to trench the conduit and should just "loop it around the hot tub" so that we don't need to come from the bottom (through the pre-"drilled" holes that are in the pans). We tried explaining that not only does it look horrible aesthetically, but if someone trips on it, steps on it, or has any other serious problems, it could be directly attributed to the installation of the electrical conduit.

I think that he ended up selling a long time customer of ours to his own electrician that does his hot-tubs for $400 a piece. I'm sure we will be getting a call back soon to fix that ugly mess!

 

[Brady Electric]

Talking with another electrician

Talking with another electrician

All of you have good points
Its good to hear that most of you know what you are worth and don't care what others charge
I enjoy hearing what all of you think without cutting down others
If I can't make money I'll stay home and work with my horses
That's what's good about being in business for yourself
Hope all of you have a GREAT and profitable day

Semper Fi Buddy

 

[tonyou812]

I know one guy that will do alot of sidejobs when he wants to pay for one of his many vacations or if he wants to go to Atlantic City. I would love to turn him in but, how would you go about it?
I dont buy the " I gotta do side jobs for my family" Hey Jacka$$ heres a thought, " if you dont make alot of money why do you have so many kids? Why dont you better yourself by passing the test and doing it right like the rest of us? Ill tell you why, cause you want it all easy. Just show up and do the work and voiala I made some money, but in the real buisness world it doesnt work that way.

 

[Brady Electric]

Talking with another electrician

Talking with another electrician

Around here you contact Board of Electrical Contractors in Raleigh, N.C.
They will send out investigators to check it out and punish according to the violation
I would assume that you contact whom ever has jurisdiction over your electrical work
Electrical work is not a hobby and I wish more people would be careful who they hire to do the job
Semper Fi Buddy

 

[weressl]

I know one guy that will do alot of sidejobs when he wants to pay for one of his many vacations or if he wants to go to Atlantic City. I would love to turn him in but, how would you go about it?
I dont buy the " I gotta do side jobs for my family" Hey Jacka$$ heres a thought, " if you dont make alot of money why do you have so many kids? Why dont you better yourself by passing the test and doing it right like the rest of us? Ill tell you why, cause you want it all easy. Just show up and do the work and voiala I made some money, but in the real buisness world it doesnt work that way.

It is a moral issue fraught with several issues:

1./ Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord,
2./ You may think you know the guys situation, but do you really live his life?
3./ What goes around, comes around.(Closely related to the 1st., it usually means that things tend to balance out themselves if left alone.)
4./ You can try to talk to the guy to raise his own moral conscience ? if there is such issue ? and allow him to correct his mistake. If the ?law? gets him, he will just learn to be a wiser, more careful offender, his character will not change.
5./ It is all of our duty to protect others from danger, eg. the HO where his work is being done exposed to unsafe electrical installation. The question remains: do you KNOW if his work is unsafe? Just because he is not licensed by the State it does not mean his work is not right.

 

[growler]

It is all of our duty to protect others from danger, eg. the HO where his work is being done exposed to unsafe electrical installation. The question remains: do you KNOW if his work is unsafe? Just because he is not licensed by the State it does not mean his work is not right.

First off can you say the work is safe. Would you be willing to sign off on it. Would you be willing to take responsibility for it sight unseen.

If we lived under a Theocratic government with and ecclesiastical court system morals might figure into it but we don't we have a democratic goverment with a secular court system. We have a system of laws for almost everything and with good reason.

With our legal sytem it's not up to each of us to run around playing God and making calls on the work of others, that's what laws are for.

With our system in place tonyou812 doesn't have the authority to say if the side worker's job is safe and in cases doesn't have the authority to say if his own work is safe. He just doesn't get to make the final judgment call. There is a system in place to make sure the work is safe which tonyou812 follows and the side worker doesn't. The final authority rest with the AHJ and not with the Pope, priest, preacher or any other religious authority.

I doesn't matter if the work is safe or not it's still illegal because it's not possible to know if the work is safe. It doen't have to be unsafe, just questionable. It hasn't recieved approval by an unbiased party ( those without motive to cut corners).

In a parable written a couple thousand years ago a wise man stated " render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and render unto God that which is God's". Electrical work would seem to fall into Caesar's jurisdiction ( civil authority).

This is a legal issue and it's impossible to say if the work is safe without going through the proper inspection procedure. Even for a licensed elecrical contractor the work is not considered safe until inspected by those with the authority to make the ruling. That's why there is both a rough and final inspection to allow the authorities to see the work in progress when it it possible to make such a judgment call.

 

[weressl]

First off can you say the work is safe. Would you be willing to sign off on it. Would you be willing to take responsibility for it sight unseen.

If we lived under a Theocratic government with and ecclesiastical court system morals might figure into it but we don't we have a democtractic goverment with a secular court system. We have a system of laws for almost erverything and with good reason.

With our legal sytem it's not up to each of us to run around playing God and making calls on the work of others, that's what laws are for.

With our system in place tonyou812 doesn't have the authority to say if the side worker's job is safe and in cases doesn't have the authority to say if his own work is safe. He just doesn't get to make the final judgment call. There is a system in place to make sure the work is safe which tonyou812 follows and the side worker doesn't. The final authority rest with the AHJ and not with the Pope, priest, preacher or any other religious authority.

I doesn't matter if the work is safe or not it's still illegal because it's not possible to know if the work is safe. It doen't have to be unsafe, just questionable. It hasn't recieved approval by an unbiased party ( those without motive to cut corners).

In a parable written a couple thousand years ago a wise man stated " render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and render unto God that which is God's". Electrical work would seem to fall into Caesar's jurisdiction ( civil authority).

This is a legal issue and it's impossible to say if the work is safe without going through the proper inspection procedure. Even for a licensed elecrical contractor the work is not considered safe until inspected by those with the authority to make the ruling. That's why there is both a rough and final inspection to allow the authorities to see the work in progress when it it possible to make such a judgment call.

True, but my conscience trumps all laws. Doesn't yours?

Do you ever exceed the speed limit?
Do you want to turn this country into a State where everybody reports on lawbreaking?

 

[Bombo]

AMEN Growler!!:grin:

 

[weressl]

LOL the irony in that is just breath taking...

OK you can exhale now...........:grin: I am glad you caught it.

 

[LarryFine]

Just because he is not licensed by the State it does not mean his work is not right.

Maybe not, but it does mean his work is not legal.

 

[growler]

True, but my conscience trumps all laws. Doesn't yours?

No and it a good thing it doesn't. I try not to depend on the consience thing ( a learned set of taboos with loopholes ). I prefer to live in a world governed by logic and reason.

Logic and reason tells me that people (all people) tend to take more liberties when no one is watching over them. Temptation is always there to put money before safety. If a man is willing to break one law then the odds of him breaking another are greater. His consience may not bother him but he may not have one and has never considered that fact.

I have learned that people can justify almost anything and have a clear conscience right up to and including murder if it's profitable.

 

[weressl]

Maybe not, but it does mean his work is not legal.

Larry, I agree.

I have not taken a position on the issue, but I have raised a list of questions that everybody can ask themselves in helping to decide what action may their moral conscience guides them to choose.

Driving over the speed limit is also illegal, yet we all do it every day without consequences. Should one injure somebody else in a car accident while exceeding the speed limit, speeding would present an aggravating circumstance.

 

[weressl]

No and it a good thing it doesn't. I try not to depend on the consience thing ( a learned set of taboos with loopholes ). I prefer to live in a world governed by logic and reason.

Logic and reason tells me that people (all people) tend to take more liberties when no one is watching over them. Temptation is always there to put money before safety. If a man is willing to break one law then the odds of him breaking another are greater. His consience may not bother him but he may not have one and has never considered that fact.

I have learned that people can justify almost anything and have a clear conscience right up to and including murder if it's profitable.

Then you are not an autonomous human being with free will.

 

[Bombo]

Then you are not an autonomous human being with free will.

Sure he is, he just use his free will to do what is correct for the society he chooses to live in, which is follow the laws we've made. (this is getting good now :grin: )

 

[weressl]

Sure he is, he just use his free will to do what is correct for the society he chooses to live in, which is follow the laws we've made. (this is getting good now :grin: )

So were the Concentration Camp operators in Germany.

 

[Bombo]

So were the Concentration Camp operators in Germany.

Yes, but they were still using their free will to choose whether or not to follow, which is what we were discussing. He has free will and so did they.

 

[growler]

Driving over the speed limit is also illegal, yet we all do it every day without consequences. Should one injure somebody else in a car accident while exceeding the speed limit, speeding would present an aggravating circumstance.

Even without death or injury to other motorist people receive speeding tickets every day. Not everyone gets a ticket every time they speed but most people ( even the speeders ) agree that some sort of control is necessary to keep the highways safe. Just let a cop stop you without proper insurance coverage or license ( to include tag) and see if there are no consequenses.

Many countries require a driver's license and never build the first concentration camp.

You may be required to have a hunting license, fishing license, dog license, marriage license, boating license, teaching certificate, even the church may require you to be ordained. So we just do away with all of these rules or the next step is concentration camps.

 

[Bombo]

Even without death or injury to other motorist people receive speeding tickets every day. Not everyone gets a ticket every time they speed but most people ( even the speeders ) agree that some sort of control is necessary to keep the highways safe. Just let a cop stop you without proper insurance coverage or license ( to include tag) and see if there are no consequenses.

Many countries require a driver's license and never build the first concentration camp.

You may be required to have a hunting license, fishing license, dog license, marriage license, boating license, teaching certificate, even the church may require you to be ordained. So we just do away with all of these rules or the next step is concentration camps.

Did I say AMEN yet?

 

[growler]

4./ You can try to talk to the guy to raise his own moral conscience ? if there is such issue ? and allow him to correct his mistake. If the "law" gets him, he will just learn to be a wiser, more careful offender, his character will not change.

So we get rid of all the jails and prisons because the law just doesn't work.

Most offenders give up a life of crime ( big and small ) because they are afraid of the long arm of the law and not because they had had a change of heart.

Just name one country in the world where they do not have a system of laws that's ever been a success. You have a choice between laws and anarchy. Anarchy has never been a success.

Would people really pay their taxes on a voluntary basis. We all hate taxes but understand that they are a necessary evil.

Do you pay your taxes because you want Uncle Sam to have all that money or because you don't have a choice? It's the law and you don't want to end up in prison.

 

[weressl]

So we get rid of all the jails and prisons because the law just doesn't work.

Most offenders give up a life of crime ( big and small ) because they are afraid of the long arm of the law and not because they had had a change of heart.

Just name one country in the world where they do not have a system of laws that's ever been a success. You have a choice between laws and anarchy. Anarchy has never been a success.

Would people really pay their taxes on a voluntary basis. We all hate taxes but understand that they are a necessary evil.

Do you pay your taxes because you want Uncle Sam to have all that money or because you don't have a choice? It's the law and you don't want to end up in prison.

Strawman argument, I never said ANY of those things. You're missing my point and that is of course one thing I am willing to live with