temp. service # of gfci alowed

[iwire]

On the inside of the cover it should say Power Outlet. That is why your inspectors do not look for a main because it is a Power Outlet, not a panel board at all and 408 would not apply.

Interesting, it looks like a panelboard to me.

Do you have any reference to show it is not a panel covered under the scope of 408?

From 408.1 Scope.

"This Article covers the following:

(1) All switchboards, panel boards, and distribution boards installed for the control of light or power circuits."

 

[dcspector]

Strange and interesting......I have been from Florida to Indiana now Virginia......all pass inspection????

 

[iwire]

Well I went and searched my UL White Book.

I found

"POWER OUTLETS AND POWER OUTLET FITTINGS" (QPYV)

It backs up what Jackleg (and George) had to say on this subject.

How about this statement:

The object in question is a power outlet, not an L&ABCPB.

On the inside of the cover it should say Power Outlet. That is why your inspectors do not look for a main because it is a Power Outlet, not a panel board at all and 408 would not apply.

I have never seen that type of unit or the heard the term "Power Outlet" used in this way.

I stand corrected and apologize to George for making light of his earlier suggestion.

So now my opinion is this.

If it is listed as a "Power Outlet" :roll: and is listed as "suitable for service equipment" it does not need a single main ahead of the bus bars.

If it is listed as a panel board and contains those same circuits then it would need overcurrent protection ahead of the bus bars.

Bob

 

[Jackleg]

Well the scope of 408 never says anything about a Power Outlet. As a matter of fact the only place in the NEC that I know it is mentioned is in the definitions. Its' definition and lack of being discussed elsewhere in the NEC leaves me to believe that it is only regulated by the UL sticker it bares; Unless it it altered in any way.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Kudos to george & jackleg for solving the mystery. Thanks--- I use them all the time and it was driving me nuts-- I even called our state inspector and he basically said if it is listed as service equipment it good to go.

 

[iwire]

Thanks--- I use them all the time

This is all new to me.

I have never been to a construction site that Two 120 circuits and one 240 circuit would be acceptable to anyone.

Compressor one 120 circuit, large saw one 240 circuit, misc on the last 120 circuit?

Where are these used, small single family homes?

Even our smallest sites get at least one 200 amp panel with at least a 1/2 dozen receptacle circuits.

That does not even include any lighting.

Oh well learned something new.:smile:

 

[Jackleg]

IMO the OP has something totaly different that a Power Outlet, unless he has added on to it. I am willing to bet he has a meter above a main lug panel. In that case I agree with Iwire and he would need a main. Not only because it is now a lighting panel but because he has to conforme with all of 230 (according to 590.4 A ). My point being, I have never seen a Main Lug Panel that was rated for service equipment.

 

[Jackleg]

Where are these used, small single family homes?

That is exaclly were you will find these. The great thing about them is for $110 you get 2 GFCI receptecals and a 50 amp GFCI breaker already installed with the other equipment. Just ground it to earth it and go.

 

[iwire]

My point being, I have never seen a Main Lug Panel that was rated for service equipment.

They are available and I have used them.

None have been what I would call a household 'Load Center'

All have been large 3 phase bolt on panels with stickers that say (more or less)

'Suitable for use as service equipment if equipped with main or not more than six overcurrent devices'

 

[iwire]

The great thing about them is for $110 you get 2 GFCI receptecals and a 50 amp GFCI breaker already installed with the other equipment. Just ground it to earth it and go.

That is a good deal.

50 amp? I was under the impression it was a 20 amp 240.

Now it makes more sense as you could drop a spider box off of the 50 and have plenty of receptacles.

 

[Jackleg]

Then we have both learned something today.:smile:

 

[iwire]

Then we have both learned something today.:smile:

Thanks, and even though I am still sore from having been wrong

.....welcome to the forum.

I know you registered awhile ago but you have not posted much.

 

[Jackleg]

Now it makes more sense as you could drop a spider box off of the 50 and have plenty of receptacles.

Perhaps, but maybe not leagely. I dont know if the equipment allows you to add on to it even though the KOs are there. It may void the UL listing. With all that said it is a common thing to add an extra GFCI recptecal under them.

 

[iwire]

Perhaps, but maybe not leagely. I dont know if the equipment allows you to add on to it even though the KOs are there. It may void the UL listing. With all that said it is a common thing to add an extra GFCI recptecal under them.

What I imagined is that there is a 120/240 50 amp outlet connected to the GFCI?

Into that I could plug a 50 amp feeder to a temp distribution box with its own branch circuit protection.

But I guess I should just ask....what is the 50 amp generally used for?

I feel like a newbie here.

The last temp services I did where just for the job trailers and power at the gate. Three 400 amp and another four or five 200 amp three phase services on the same site.

We had not even started the temp service for the building under construction.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

That is a good deal.

50 amp? I was under the impression it was a 20 amp 240.

The panel pictured has a 20 amp 240 volt gfi breaker not a 50 amp. We use the 20 amp GFCI for the carpenter compressors and the 120 v for small tools and radios, of course. When the floor sanders come they pop out the GFCI 20 amp breaker and put in their own dp 30. No GFI-- no box-- wires hanging out--- I'm glad I don't have to see it. They always put it back together so I guess it's their problem if something goes wrong. I'm not usually there when this happens.

 

[Jackleg]

First, Thanks for the welcome. Second, I see what you are saying and would have no problem with your plug-in distribution box. But the 50 amp receptecals are used primaraly for these large table saws that actually have a range plug and yes it is from the factory. Every builder of any size in NC that I have ever dealt with has one now.

I feel like a newbie here.

Don't let a junior member show you up

 

[Jackleg]

I didn't think about that but Dennis you are right they do make Power Outlets with 20 amp 240 volt receptecals too. It has just been a while since I have seen one that was not home made.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

But the 50 amp receptecals are used primaraly for these large table saws that actually have a range plug and yes it is from the factory. Every builder of any size in NC that I have ever dealt with has one now.

My friends just built John Edwards(yes, the pres. candidate) house here in Chapel Hill. 12,000 sq. ft house with an 11,000 sq. ft rec building. Not one table saw there was more than 120 volts. You guys must be tough at the beach. I guess when the wind blows you better have a big saw.

 

[Jackleg]

Agreed. But I am surprised you never have seen this. The first one I saw was in Wake County about 4 years ago.

 

[iwire]

I don't see many wood jobs so I can't say what they usually use here.