Trade Terms that should go away

[John Valdes]

Another one I don't like "neutral"

How many times have you been knocked on your butt by a so called "neutral"
Thats why I never use white wire for return conductors in control panels. I number them. The same number of course.

 

[tallgirl]

Another one I don't like "neutral"

How many times have you been knocked on your butt by a so called "neutral"
Thats why I never use white wire for return conductors in control panels. I number them. The same number of course.

I've gotten stung by a few "neutrals" that really were "neutrals".

It needs a new name, like "The wire that has voltage on it even when the breaker is open that you think is your friend but really isn't."

If it was a person it would be called "Sneaky little fart".

 

[big john]

Safety labels on panels and equipment sometimes warn of high voltage. But it's 480.

We once had to remove some signage that identified 480 as "high voltage" and replace it with signs that simply said "electrical hazard." I'm all for that because "high voltage" is grossly overused and accordingly it loses the ability to be an effective warning. You see "high voltage" labels on 120 volt equipment. I'd love to start putting high voltage stickers on all the receptacles and switches in a house.

The real irony is that if I ever came across a sign that said "Danger: Medium Voltage" that's when I'd be nervous because good odds it'd be something in the neighborhood of 4,160-34.5kV

-John

 

[marcerrin]

how 'bout "3-way switch". If I have to explain once more to a customer, "...why is it called a 3-way when theres only two switches?"

 

[acrwc10]

Some say NO refers to the energized state, while other manufacturers have them for the de-energized state.

I say if your switch says "NO" and the circuit is energized you need to turn over your switch so it says "ON".

 

[Towzzer]

anyone use line voltage to refer to 120/240
anything below that as low and anything higher as high

 

[racerdave3]

We once had to remove some signage that identified 480 as "high voltage" and replace it with signs that simply said "electrical hazard." I'm all for that because "high voltage" is grossly overused and accordingly it loses the ability to be an effective warning. You see "high voltage" labels on 120 volt equipment. I'd love to start putting high voltage stickers on all the receptacles and switches in a house.

The real irony is that if I ever came across a sign that said "Danger: Medium Voltage" that's when I'd be nervous because good odds it'd be something in the neighborhood of 4,160-34.5kV

-John

I guess it really comes down to the job description of the person you are talking to. If it is an alarm installer or Telcom person, then to them 120 volts is high voltage when they are playing the lower voltages all day. To us electricians, you may hear the term of high voltage as being over 600 volts. Talk to a lineman for the poco and their terms and scope of voltages will be much higher as well.

 

[iwire]

Or at least get the terminology on the same page. Some say NO refers to the energized state, while other manufacturers have them for the de-energized state.

I agree.

I just ignore the marking and 'ring em out' every time. I find phase loss monitors are always different as to what is the normal state.

 

[racerdave3]

how 'bout "3-way switch". If I have to explain once more to a customer, "...why is it called a 3-way when theres only two switches?"

Let us not forget 4-way switches too then..........you will run into probelms explaining the use of a 4-way when you are switching from 3 locations, or likewise even more confusing to them if you are switching from 5 or 6 locations in a hallway or stairwell.

 

[Minuteman]

Tom, I was thinking about this from another thread.

Yeah. 220... 221, whatever it takes.

What about 110 and 220? Or is it 120, 208 or 240? I'm confused

 

[paul]

Another one I don't like "neutral"

How many times have you been knocked on your butt by a so called "neutral"
Thats why I never use white wire for return conductors in control panels. I number them. The same number of course.

I've never been hit by a neutral. But then I treat it with the utmost respect on a multiwire circuit. On control panels, I use white for the grounded conductor on 24 and 12 VAC control circuits.

 

[GeorgeB]

Yea, that part I might have guessed. :roll:

But if a system can be operated in many different ways, and if all of them are considered "normal" operations (not "abnormal" or "emergency situations"), which of the operating modes do you choose, in order to say that the position of a valve during that operating mode is the one you will call the "normal position" of the valve? It's all about the meaning of "normal."

I prefer the notation of "a" and "b" contacts. An "a contact" is one that is open, when the device (relay, switch, whatever) is in the mail on its way to your facility (i.e., unopened box, no wires attached, de-energized state). If you install a relay in an application that keeps it energized for most of its operating life, and if therefore its "a contacts" are closed for most of their operating lives, the "a contacts" are still called "a contacts." I don't like the confusion that would arise if you instead called them "normally open contacts," and then explained that they are "normally" kept closed.

As I see it, we are addressing 2 slightly different issues. If I use "normally", that is the condition when it is not energized. Detented, or devices which have some form of memory (very common in air valves, seen in hydraulics, my experience in power relating to starter circuits that will start a different pump or compressor on subsequent starts) don't fit this "normally" terminology.

 

[acrwc10]

The one that I run into that drives me crazy is fire sprinkler flow switches in residential. The switch says NO & NC on it but then they put a spring on it to hold it open putting it in the opposite possition as drawn on the switch.

 

[petersonra]

The one that I run into that drives me crazy is fire sprinkler flow switches in residential. The switch says NO & NC on it but then they put a spring on it to hold it open putting it in the opposite possition as drawn on the switch.

The proper terminalogy for such a contact is NO, held closed; or NC, held open. The held part is done by mechanical action. The switch itself is still NO or NC.

 

[acrwc10]

The proper terminalogy for such a contact is NO, held closed; or NC, held open. The held part is done by mechanical action. The switch itself is still NO or NC.

Yes the switch is both NO or NC with a "common" , What I am saying is the switch was made by one company and installed into the flow switch unit by another company who adds a spring to it that changes the original positioning of the switch, and the diagram molded into the switch is now wrong. It shows com. to A as NC and com. to B as NO. When it is the oppisite of this with the added spring. Not only does it say NC it has a line diagram that shows NC as making contact and NO as not making contact.

 

[petersonra]

A form A switch is NO. A form B switch is NC. A form C switch has a common, and both a NO and NC side.

There are also form X, Y, and Z switches. These are similar to form A, B, and C, but all the terminals get broken instead of just one side.

 

[e150club]

unroll first so we dont get any a-holes in the cable always liked that one

 

[acrwc10]

A form A switch is NO. A form B switch is NC. A form C switch has a common, and both a NO and NC side.

There are also form X, Y, and Z switches. These are similar to form A, B, and C, but all the terminals get broken instead of just one side.

HUH? please rewind that and slow it down so I can understand it. :-? I am interested in your example ,just I am not quite following it.

 

[coulter]

...What about 110 and 220? ...

I'd agree. There hasn't been any 110, 220, 440 around for maybe 30 years - unless the service is 50Hz.

carl

 

[coulter]

How about the practice of adding all three phase currents and using that number for the three-phase current.

I can't figure out where this practice could have come from.

(I kid you not, I work with one electrician that insists on doing that.

carl