TV Remote Control

[LarryFine]

Both my Wii and DVD player are behind closed wooden doors, and the remote and wii controllers work fine.

See how good that repeater is? You only have to look at a picture of it on the internet and it works.

 

[e57]

but E57 you are making it scary for this A/V rookie!

Are there some do's and don'ts to this A/V thing?

Yeah - well sorry.... But there are a huge list of do's and dont's....

But off the top of my head for TV viewing and AV interface - the IR repeaters do exactly what they are supposed to... you shoot IR at it, it spits it out on the other side....

EASY - DONE! But if you are providing and programming the darned thing, and taking some responsibility to work and do what it is supposed to do.... Then there comes some other problems.... Universal remotes take either programmed codes, or actual copies of IR signals from the original remotes for each piece of equipment. And the hard part of this it to get them all to work for what they are supposed to.... A number of remotes like Harmony simplify it by sequencing it for you... You push a button saying "CD" it turns on the AV receiver, waits - sends another one for the CD player to turn on, waits.... Sends another signal for the CD player to start to play.... And with all of this it may or may not use the AV receiver to change volume.... The exact same happens with TV's - the TV has a volume control, and so does the AV receiver - which one? The Internet program that Harmony uses asks questions about this... but all options aren't there sometimes... Some some old or odd equipment that ain't in its data base - there are some workarounds, but time is mula...

If your customer mis-aims the remote one day - it could throw the whole thing off - because the equipment only caught half of the commands.... The Harmony and a few others have some trouble-shooting feed back to help correct this if something goes wrong.... And what do you have - a whining, unapologetic version of your mother in-law - or well at least mine.... "the remote don't work can you fix it?"

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My neighbor across the street is one of the top AV installer on the west coast... We bump into each other on jobs here and there, and occasionally talk shop.... His take, and mine through some inexperience of my own...

The difference between and AV Pro, and an Electrician is the AV guy has a rock solid and lucrative service contract - the Electrician installed some wire and equipment then walked away, and gets nothing really for call backs.... The AV guy banks up-front to get called back time and again.... He sold ALL of the equipment as a whole system, the TV, the audio equipment, and the controls.... He gets paid to hold their hand... I have a hard time selling or doing that...

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My advice.... Provide and install the IR repeater with all of the equipment in place - explain the system to the customer, prove each component gets the IR signal from it's own remote, and tell them the controls are up to them - point them towards a Harmony remote they can buy themselves - collect your money and walk away....

Or go full bore AV guy and jump into that market with all the bells and whistles - ALL of the equipment, a service contract, and some time to go hang out sitting on the edge of their bed to sort it all out.....

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HDMI cables suck at distance.... Many are not rated for use in walls.... And some day soon will be out-dated... Some type of large conduit between the two equipment locations is a MUST IMO... Since smurf is not allowed in my area locally - I strip the sheath off of 1 1/2" - 2" liq-tite, and or some conduit....

Additionally, I run some stuff OUTSIDE of the conduit at TV's: (use the conduit only for the HDMI CABLE)

• 2 Cat 5 (HDMI baluns*)
• 2 RG-6 (coaxial as RCA L/R)
• 1 18/4 class 2 (IR) - you could use cat-5 in a pinch...
• 14/2 speaker wire for center channel near the TV

As well as L/R front and rear, L/R speaker cable and 2 coaxial RG-6 as RCA for the sub-woofer.

*Most AV installers skip the nightmare of bad HDMI cables over 10-15' and just use baluns. The format was never intended to go more than a few feet, and was not tested at those distances originally, and over those distances good cables cost as much or more.... Cat 5 HDMI baluns can go 100'+ ~ 50-60' is great...

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Game controls - no clue - you're on your own....

 

[iwire]

I strip the sheath off of 1 1/2" - 2" liq-tite, and or some conduit....

Huh?

 

[LarryFine]

If your customer mis-aims the remote one day - it could throw the whole thing off - because the equipment only caught half of the commands.... The Harmony and a few others have some trouble-shooting feed back to help correct this if something goes wrong.... And what do you have - a whining, unapologetic version of your mother in-law - or well at least mine.... "the remote don't work can you fix it?"

That's only one of the things I like about the Harmony line. A customer for whom I wired up two separate systems in her house was interested after I told her how easy it was to use. She had "heard that one before!"

I lent her one of my personal ones, set it up for her in about 10 minutes (using only model numbers, for those who don't know) on her computer, and left it with her. If she liked it, she'd have me order one for her.

About three days later, she called me and said a relative turned some things on or off with either the original remote or panel button, and was unhappy. I said "See the 'help' button? Press it and answer the questions."

About 15 seconds later, she said "Um, Mr. Fine?* Send me a bill and order yourself a new remote. I'm keeping this one!


'Nuff said!



*They call me that sometimes; I don't know why.

 

[iwire]

So talk to me, I have maybe 5 items to control in my living room and would like a simple to use all in one remote. Whats good?

 

[LarryFine]

So talk to me, I have maybe 5 items to control in my living room and would like a simple to use all in one remote. Whats good?

Harmony, baby, and you don't even need one of the top'o'the line models.

I was a beta tester and got one of the very first ones when they were still being developed.

Logitech bought Harmony when they became popular.


Added: The 510 is the least expensive current one right now.

 

[e57]

Huh?

If you leave about 3" of the rubber sheath of liq-tite on each end (just to keep it together), and strip the rest off - it's like a freekin slinky.... Very flexible really easy to work with... And unlike flex of that size is not so deeply corrugated so the head of cables don't jamb up trying to put them in.... Seems pricey - but not be able to, or mash cables putting them in and it gets just as pricey IMO.... Just my personal trick.... Take that to EMT then back out to the same at the other end for long runs... Sometimes I have to pipe clear accross a house in 2" from an AV closet to some stupid TV - the liq-tite flex works better... Like I said - I'm not allowed to use smurf in my area...

So talk to me, I have maybe 5 items to control in my living room and would like a simple to use all in one remote. Whats good?

Yeah - Harmony... I have two... The only problem is I have a DVR for security cameras that I had to have the remote "learn" it from the original - otherwise great...

One of them however succumbed to the wrath of my two year old daughter though.... Not a toy...

 

[iwire]

One of them however succumbed to the wrath of my two year old daughter though.... Not a toy...

Mine are 9 and 11 so hopefully that will not be a problem, the younger one already killed a really nice DVR changer. :grin:

 

[e57]

Mine are 9 and 11 so hopefully that will not be a problem, the younger one already killed a really nice DVR changer. :grin:

Mine is on an IR repeater from away for child reach... As the rest of the AV stuff... But she also mangled the center cones on my B&W speakers... I try not to think about that too much though - it still burns...

 

[iwire]

Mine is on an IR repeater from away for child reach... As the rest of the AV stuff... But she also mangled the center cones on my B&W speakers... I try not to think about that too much though - it still burns...

One of the girls thought the slots in the back of a PC power supply where good for coins, no damage to kid but power supply smoked. :grin:

 

[e57]

I looked up the Harmony 890 and read up on it. Hear are a few more questions that reveal how little I know about these things.

OK here we go...

Do every day remotes work with IR and need to see the device being controlled?

Yes - 99% of them are point and shoot...

I take it the remotes that work on RF will work around corners and through cabinet doors and I assume through walls.

Yep - the do have some limitations... But yes...

How can a remote that functions on RF control something that is meant to be controlled with IR?

It transfers commands RF from the remote to a reciever to a repeater to IR then the equipment picks that up. Usually in a two unit radio transmitter remote, and a receiver to translate back to IR.

THe Harmony 890 lists computer operating systems that it is compatible with. What does a computer have to do with operating A/V components?

The unit is programmed from Harmony's website through an account you set up that comes with the purchase. You tell it what you have, and how it will act together - it asks common questions - you answer and it spits out a program via USB into you remote. It also stores all this info, in case you loose it or someone sells it to telemarketers to call to tell you that you need to buy the latest CD player because your is old.... (Kidding about that last part - but I wonder.... :roll

Maybe I need to go to some A/V forums but there must be a few electricians in my boat that would like to learn about this stuff.

Give it a shot - also check out crutchfeild...

 

[electricmanscott]

Did somebody say av forums?? http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/

http://www.remotecentral.com/

I am looking for a new remote right now. My problem is finding one with the buttons I need. I'm looking at the new Harmony 900. Other than the usual buttons I need DVR control.

I hear good and bad about the Harmony. Programing is easy but it doesn't always do what you want it to do. For example on my DVR when yyou press fas forward more than once it will go faster. Up to four speeds. The Harmony supposedly does not recognize that.

 

[mkgrady]

OK here we go...

Yes - 99% of them are point and shoot...
Yep - the do have some limitations... But yes...
It transfers commands RF from the remote to a reciever to a repeater to IR then the equipment picks that up. Usually in a two unit radio transmitter remote, and a receiver to translate back to IR.
The unit is programmed from Harmony's website through an account you set up that comes with the purchase. You tell it what you have, and how it will act together - it asks common questions - you answer and it spits out a program via USB into you remote. It also stores all this info, in case you loose it or someone sells it to telemarketers to call to tell you that you need to buy the latest CD player because your is old.... (Kidding about that last part - but I wonder.... :roll
Give it a shot - also check out crutchfeild...

Thanks for your responses. My knowledge of such things has increased 1000% from reading your and others posts. Now I'll just have to increase my knowledge another 1000% and I'll be in good shape. I'll poke around at the sites provided and watch for more responses here.

 

[LarryFine]

But she also mangled the center cones on my B&W speakers...

Have you tried using vacuum to pop the dome back out?

 

[e57]

Have you tried using vacuum to pop the dome back out?

I don't think that would do it - they are kind ov bullet shapped.... It doesn't affect the sound as I have noticed so I keep the screens on - although they were on before she ripped them off to do that....

 

[LarryFine]

I don't think that would do it - they are kind ov bullet shapped.... It doesn't affect the sound as I have noticed so I keep the screens on - although they were on before she ripped them off to do that....

Ah. Those are called "phase plugs." I have never read what they're supposed to do, but I think it supposedly affects the higher-frequency (for the driver) dispersion pattern.

My speakers, the original Definitive Technology BP-2000's, a CLR-2000, B-20's, and BP-X's, don't have them.

When I first saw "center cones" in your post, I thought "Whizzer cones??? On B&W's??? Naah, can't be!" :roll: Whew!

 

[mkgrady]

Their Hot Link Pro is about the easiest-to-set-up-and-use repeater there is for the neophyte.

Larry I see you also recommend the Harmony 510 in post #26. So if I understand correctly, I can use the Hot Link Pro to control components inside a cabinet and the Harmony 510 allows the use of one remote for all the components inside or outside the cabinet but it is optional if the customer is OK using multiple remotes?

 

[e57]

Ah. Those are called "phase plugs." I have never read what they're supposed to do, but I think it supposedly affects the higher-frequency (for the driver) dispersion pattern.

My speakers, the original Definitive Technology BP-2000's, a CLR-2000, B-20's, and BP-X's, don't have them.

When I first saw "center cones" in your post, I thought "Whizzer cones??? On B&W's??? Naah, can't be!" :roll: Whew!

I haven't heard the term whizzer cone in some time.... I had an old carver guitar amp that had them when I was a kid - and I think they were replaced drivers at that... But yes the correct term for these would be a modified 'phase-plug-like' "Dust Cap" and these are active on the driver - but made out of aluminumized plastic... A phase plug per-se would normally be completely inactive and attached to the driver pole...

I googled and found a picture of these door-knob like ones... With what looks like whizzer cones below them...

 

[e57]

Larry I see you also recommend the Harmony 510 in post #26. So if I understand correctly, I can use the Hot Link Pro to control components inside a cabinet and the Harmony 510 allows the use of one remote for all the components inside or outside the cabinet but it is optional if the customer is OK using multiple remotes?

The answer here is yes... the repeater is separate and acts alone with any remote - just repeats whatever comes it's way.

The Hot-link though has a few draw backs visible right of the bat - just from looking at it...

• The eye, and ribbon cable for the emitters look proprietary.
• The cables are fixed lengths...

But I guess it is just a black box leaving the mystery intact of it's operation to the uninitiated....

Where as Niles and Russound, as well as a few other generic brands are compatible with each other in terms of expansion and availability...

 

[LarryFine]

Larry I see you also recommend the Harmony 510 in post #26. So if I understand correctly, I can use the Hot Link Pro to control components inside a cabinet and the Harmony 510 allows the use of one remote for all the components inside or outside the cabinet but it is optional if the customer is OK using multiple remotes?

Yes to all. The repeater emitters self-stick over the IR receiver of each component, and are clear enough that the IR will also pass through them with the Hot Link powered off. The repeater does just that: it duplicates whatever IR signal the receiver picks up.

Don't underestimate the Harmony. To watch a DVD, for example, you press "watch DVD" and it transmits whatever it needs to in order to select power on/off, input, etc., for each component. It has what's known as a high WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor).

It's as easy to program as making a list of the make and model number of each component, going to the Harmony website and creating a profile, inputting the equipment list, answering a few questions, and uploading the completed programming to the remote.