jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
What if it is just a swap out, say 100A for 100A?
Upgrading a Residential Service
- Thread starter wmeek
- Start date
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What if it is just a swap out, say 100A for 100A?
- Location
- Massachusetts
Then if it was the right size, installed correctly per todays standards and in good shape I might very well use it.
Now ....... How often would that be the case?
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I think that will be an AHJ call but if you just changed out the panel I would say that you would not have to redo the gec to within 5'--- I probably would but not sure it can be enforced.
Richardtheelectrician
Member
- Location
- Kerrville, Tx, Kerr county
What is upgraing?
not quite what i meant but to answer your question, no
trying to rem my old house that had a 60a service ... cant remember if water was even grounded ... lol
what part of water line is the question i have .... existing location or get it within 5' of water service entrance to bring upgrade to existing code
had a phone call while replying didnt see this
my inspectors require the move to water service entrance, was just curious what others thought
stevebea
Senior Member
- Location
- Southeastern PA
Richardtheelectrician
Member
- Location
- Kerrville, Tx, Kerr county
Upgrading. But you already knew that.
I can't talk anymore, because augie47 said he would ban me.
Fulthrotl
~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
- Occupation
- E
richard, work it out in therapy. bob killed my thread exploring
ways besides electrocution of clearing a raccoon infestation.
do you see me making a voodoo doll of bob? of course not.
you need a locket of hair for that... everyone knows that.
:happyyes:
relax. you can make a new thread. it'll be ok.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Assuming metal piping entering I would force the connection to be within 5' for safety. Objectional current on the water lines.
stickboy1375
Senior Member
- Location
- Litchfield, CT
That show was awesome, thanks for bringing it up!
jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
....I feel bad for you...not!Sorry, mods-I tried to behave- but now I am getting pissed, Gus is a friend of mine also.:rant:
Here in Chicago you would have to. When modifing the service you have to bring it to current code. Even if you swap a 100 amp panel for a larger 100 amp panel.
Thanks
Mike
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
When installing a new service or updating an existing one, isn't the grounding electrode system as much a part of that system as the service conductors? If what is currently there is not correct for the updated service then you have an incorrect installation. Would you upgrade from 60 to 200 amp service and still use the existing 60 amp service entrance conductors?
Your thread got killed mostly because it became nothing but off topic - and was not necessarily your fault. Unfortunately it has hijacked a large part of this thread also.
You can open another thread and hopefully it stays on topic. If it does not, sorry, sometimes people are not interested in a topic enough to stay on topic.
renosteinke
Senior Member
- Location
- NE Arkansas
The OP's question actually leads us to some interesting points ..... proving, once again, that a 'service change' is a lot more than just 'swapping panels.' At least, if you want to di it right!
I'll use my most recent service change as an example.
1957 house, with crawl space and 60-amp meter-base only on the outside of the house. No main in the panel inside the house. Meter 'triple-lugged' as someone, sometime added circuits for a clothes dryer and big window AC. Service was SER attached to the siding, and the weatherhead was also attached to the siding, under the eave.
New service used an "All-in-One" (100A) to feed the interior panel. This provided an outside disconnect for the panel. Neutral / ground bond made at the All-in-One.
The bond did not have to be 'relocated' from the interior panel, because the house never had any ground wires. House needs to be rewired, but that's another project.
An exposed ground wire (GEC) exited the old meter base, but was found to not attach to anything. No water bond was found, either. Theory is that the GEC / water bond were the same wire, and got removed when some plumbing was done. I don't know. In any event, a new GEC was run, in pipe, to two new ground rods. Conduit was bonded to the GEC at both ends, and covered with 'pipe wrap' tape.
In addition, a #8 water bond was run. In pipe on the outside of the house; simply stapled to the joists under the house until it reached the entry point of the water line.
Bonding the gas? Generally not done, and not done in this house. Had the gas piping method been CSST, as I understand the rules it would have been necessary to bond the piping at the meter end. (The appliance would bond that end).
SER was replaced with a mast through the eaves, properly braced, and anchored to the house framing. Mast was painted to match the house and roofing. Roof jack used, and sealed.
I'll use my most recent service change as an example.
1957 house, with crawl space and 60-amp meter-base only on the outside of the house. No main in the panel inside the house. Meter 'triple-lugged' as someone, sometime added circuits for a clothes dryer and big window AC. Service was SER attached to the siding, and the weatherhead was also attached to the siding, under the eave.
New service used an "All-in-One" (100A) to feed the interior panel. This provided an outside disconnect for the panel. Neutral / ground bond made at the All-in-One.
The bond did not have to be 'relocated' from the interior panel, because the house never had any ground wires. House needs to be rewired, but that's another project.
An exposed ground wire (GEC) exited the old meter base, but was found to not attach to anything. No water bond was found, either. Theory is that the GEC / water bond were the same wire, and got removed when some plumbing was done. I don't know. In any event, a new GEC was run, in pipe, to two new ground rods. Conduit was bonded to the GEC at both ends, and covered with 'pipe wrap' tape.
In addition, a #8 water bond was run. In pipe on the outside of the house; simply stapled to the joists under the house until it reached the entry point of the water line.
Bonding the gas? Generally not done, and not done in this house. Had the gas piping method been CSST, as I understand the rules it would have been necessary to bond the piping at the meter end. (The appliance would bond that end).
SER was replaced with a mast through the eaves, properly braced, and anchored to the house framing. Mast was painted to match the house and roofing. Roof jack used, and sealed.
replace bonding jumper or not to replace the bonding jumper... That is the question!
replace bonding jumper or not to replace the bonding jumper... That is the question!
I have rarely seen a bonding jumper that meets all the current code requirements when upgrading an old service... Obviously you look at it but in just about every single case there is usually something wrong... ie: size, location of attachment, etc. Same with the grounding electrode! You can bank on changing/upgrading both of these in almost all cases.
replace bonding jumper or not to replace the bonding jumper... That is the question!
I have rarely seen a bonding jumper that meets all the current code requirements when upgrading an old service... Obviously you look at it but in just about every single case there is usually something wrong... ie: size, location of attachment, etc. Same with the grounding electrode! You can bank on changing/upgrading both of these in almost all cases.
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