Violation or just sloppy?

[cowboyjwc]

One man's sloppy is another man's faster.:happyyes:

 

[MasterTheNEC]

Looks like a square D panel with a main breaker (200 amp?). Hard to see but...did they put Anti-ox on the aluminum wire?

Why?..it's not required.

 

[FionaZuppa]

what does the verbiage say on that sticker?

 

[John120/240]

Why?..it's not required.

Old habits die hard. Its the way we've always done it

 

[kwired]

If you are very familiar at all with this series of loadcenter - you can partially see the link bus at the very top of the image that connects the two terminal bars together. It is sort of a Z shaped piece of metal.

My guess on long length of stripped conductors is that the installer never trimmed the stripped portion on these GFCI/AFCI neutral leads - they come already stripped pretty long just as is pictured though all the panels they fit in only need about 3/8" or so max stripped off to terminate them. I wouldn't judge the entire install on this one little thing when we can't really see anything else. Apparently the installer at least knew they needed GFCI's or AFCI's, that alone could put them on a very different performance level then many other possible installers are at.

 

[kwired]

what does the verbiage say on that sticker?

I don't read Spanish, plus conductors are in the way so it is hard to quote a language one does't know all that well in the first place though I do have a few QO panels in the shop and they likely have same label installed in them if you really need to know, but if I quote it , it will be Spanish exactly like it is on the label - no English translations

 

[FionaZuppa]

I don't read Spanish, plus conductors are in the way so it is hard to quote a language one does't know all that well in the first place though I do have a few QO panels in the shop and they likely have same label installed in them if you really need to know, but if I quote it , it will be Spanish exactly like it is on the label - no English translations

the other side is English , talks about petroleum something or other...... wondering if connections were done per manufacturer label or instructions?

 

[FionaZuppa]

is this ~12ga copper passing through same hole ok with NEC? looks like screwdriver was needed to manipulate the solid copper into hole of bar on left.

 

[al hildenbrand]

is this ~12ga copper passing through same hole ok with NEC? looks like screwdriver was needed to manipulate the solid copper into hole of bar on left.

When one looks at an uncropped photo that includes the left side of the left terminal bar, one sees a solid copper extending to the left that, to my eye, clearly corresponds to the solid copper you are calling out. I'd answer your question, "No, the solid copper is not passing through the same hole that the stranded is landed in."

 

[FionaZuppa]

When one looks at an uncropped photo that includes the left side of the left terminal bar, one sees a solid copper extending to the left that, to my eye, clearly corresponds to the solid copper you are calling out. I'd answer your question, "No, the solid copper is not passing through the same hole that the stranded is landed in."

well i did mention that, it is in a hole of bar on left, but it looks like it passes through the right one 1st. look at the wire on right side of the right bar, it looks a tad higher than any other bare copper, and in the pic (hard to say for sure) it looks like bare copper is exiting the hole on right bar (the arrow i have there), but that could just be reflection in camera.

but look closely at the arrows. to me it looks like it passes through the right bar, the shinyness looks like from being scuffed while being worked into place.

 

[FionaZuppa]

that sticker has words "petroleum based", "paint", "adversely"

maybe it says to coat the wires and not paint anything inside the unit ??

 

[al hildenbrand]

. . . but that could just be reflection in camera.

The magazine art directors that I've worked with over the years call this effect a "tangent". A photo set (the objects the photo is being taken of) is very carefully manipulated to not have the line of one thing merge into the line of another thing. The camera lens "flattens" the image by removing a lot of the dimension of depth.

A flattened tangent results in the ambiguity of position that you are supposing with.

I've worked this terminal bar assembly a lot over my career and the notion of what it would take to create the offset in the solid copper conductor in the manner you describe strains credulity. The offset "could" be done, but, the ambiguity of the photo not withstanding, the "likelihood" is next to nil.

 

[FionaZuppa]

I've worked this terminal bar assembly a lot over my career and the notion of what it would take to create the offset in the solid copper conductor in the manner you describe strains credulity. The offset "could" be done, but, the ambiguity of the photo not withstanding, the "likelihood" is next to nil.

you mean this offset? looking at right side, the bottom of right bar hole to the top of the left bar hole is minimal offset for a 12ga wire to bend into. but, perhaps you are right, pic illusion. but if the copper wire went right in then why is that stranded splayed apart from a tool?

 

[Canton]

Why?..it's not required.

Its required if the wire manufacturer or equipment manufacture list it as an installation requirement. There was no specific information given in the OP.

 

[Canton]

Old habits die hard. Its the way we've always done it

Yep...older wire and equipment we always had put it on. I don't even look to see if its required by the manufacture..... Just squirt it everywhere

 

[FionaZuppa]

Yep...older wire and equipment we always had put it on. I don't even look to see if its required by the manufacture..... Just squirt it everywhere

like the noalox stuff? you just squirt it on? isnt that NEC violation?

 

[Canton]

like the noalox stuff? you just squirt it on? isnt that NEC violation?

Oya...what's the violation and artical?

 

[kwired]

Its required if the wire manufacturer or equipment manufacture list it as an installation requirement. There was no specific information given in the OP.

I don't think you will find any currently used aluminum conductor alloys that do require use of anti-oxidation compounds. Go back 30 years or more and almost all conductors required it. The habit of using compound just has been carried on by many - and because it is a habit many believe it is required. NEC does not and AFAIK did not require compound the conductor listing instructions is what required it.

 

[kwired]

is this ~12ga copper passing through same hole ok with NEC? looks like screwdriver was needed to manipulate the solid copper into hole of bar on left.

I have used these loadcenters with that design a lot myself and have to agree it would be difficult to offset a solid conductor to hit both left and right bars - but not impossible. Probably an illusion in the image.

However if it is in both the first obvious violation is NEC violation that each termination can only have one grounded conductor in it - parallel conductor exception doesn't apply to this small of a conductor either. Next would come listing instructions - where two conductors are permitted I'd have too look to make certain but I don't believe these terminals are listed for a solid with a stranded conductor - IIRC if landing two conductors they need to be same size and type and is limited to either 14 or 12 AWG sizes.

 

[FionaZuppa]

Oya...what's the violation and artical?

well, the Ideal noalox has instructions that say you buff the wire with the compound and then remove excess, thus using it just by squirting it all over would be a violation of the products' instructions. i am of course nit-picking it, but i was just curious. what do instructions for other makers of "noalox" say?

post #39, yeah, perhaps just a pic illusion, would be nice if OP could verify.